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#7326 - 03/01/06 08:49 AM Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
We have a company league that just finished this year. There are about 12 teams. The league is run by a person in the fitness center at the company. She is the only "officer". About half the teams are serious and half are "social".

To make a long story short - There were several rules issues this year, ranging from teams quitting, people changing teams without a captains vote, schedule being re-written at least 5 times, the league ended in a tie for first and no playoff was held, etc. Even though this league does have rules and the rules say we're supposed to follow all rules of the USBC.

Since she is the only officer, she makes every decision. Her constant excuse is that its a company league, and its not supposed to be competitive, though at least half the teams in the league see it differently.

Several of us want to get together and elect real league officers and do it differently next year. We'd like to have 2 divisions, one for the serious teams and one for the social teams, among other rule changes.

Problem is, we don't have people who are knowledgeable enough to be a president , etc.

So where do we read up, are there classes or on-line training, etc? I already printed a copy of the USBC rules from bowl.com.

What do you guys think?

Thank in advance. We're really trying to make this company league better.
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#7327 - 03/01/06 08:54 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
Oh, another part of it is - we get no weekly sheets with league info. The person running the league has no such software and does everything by hand, usually makes alot of mistakes. Teams who have more players than the league strength have to send her thier rosters every week before we bowl, and then she figures and sends the handicaps back. There are alot of problems with this.

So I'd like to hear about league management software. One I know of is BLS. I think it costs about $149, and I understand it does everything, including pre-printing weekly score sheets - The ones we fill in.

I'd appreciate hearing from people who use league managemant software, what they have, and how well or how poorly it works.

Oh, and this girl who runs the league does not bowl in the league - so shes never around to ask questions, etc.

Thanks.
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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#7328 - 03/01/06 09:24 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Here are a couple of things:

1) The officers do not get to make decisions for the league. The president doesn't have any authority to make decisions. Either the league or the captians have to vote on the decisions made.

2) If a change is mande to a rule during the season, it requires 100% of the teams to approve it.

3) Officers don't have to bowl in the league, but they MUST be sanctioned.

4) You must elect a president, vice president, treasurer and secretary. You can only combine the offices of secretary and treasurer. You can't have one person filling all the positions.

Here's a link to the rules and to the league management guidelines..

http://www.bowl.com/rules/main.aspx

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#7329 - 03/01/06 11:36 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Is this league actually sanctioned as it is now? Because without being sanctioned, there's no way to enforce the rules, unfortunately.

You might be right to create a serious "league" and a fun club, but I wouldn't recommend them as two divisions. You'll get the support from the league people, but the "fun" folks won't know why you're making a big deal about it.

As this is a company league, I'd suggest talking to management for their blessing, or perhaps the competitive group can just join a real league elsewehre. Especially since the health club person runs it.

As for BLS, I use it, I love it and wouldn't trade it for the world. It's well worth the price.

And in regard to where to find the rules, you can download the entire rulebook at http://www.bowl.com/rules/main.aspx

However, I'd also suggest you get the handy-dandy pocket version from your local association--they're free and much more portable than a bunch of printer paper.
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#7330 - 03/01/06 12:31 PM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
No, our company league is not sanctioned. We discussed this, but with so many "social" bowlers they felt it wasn't worth doing. They also set up payment that if you don't bowl, you don't pay. Bowling only costs $11 per week, and there was no prize money or payout at the end. There weren't even little plastic trophies for the winners.

And its a shame they weren't sanctioned, because we had several people who had some really good games this year - 100 pins over, etc. Thankfully, nobody bowled a 300 game. But one or two of the better bowlers were close a couple times.

I think making 2 divisions would be a good idea. Because we have some teams that are not at all serious and who do use the league as a social event, while we have 6 or 7 teams who are very competitive amongst themselves. So I thought having two divisions would be a good idea. Have the competitive teams bowl only the other competitive teams, and let the social teams only bowl the other social teams. Wouldn't this make sense?

Some of these teams have guys and gals with averages that are well under 100, some teams are averaging 320 for a 4 man team.
Ugh! Many players don't even have their own ball. Meanwhile, there are other teams where every player's average is over 170, and they're averaging almost 700 for 4 people. And we can't dictate who is on what team. Friends and co-workers have to be allowed to bowl together. Many of the better bowlers are already in at least one other league. Yeah, I realize 700 for 4 people is not competitive in many leagues, but this is a very small company only league with about 12 teams, half of which are not at all serious bowlers.

So again, even with 90% handicap, I don't think this is fair. This kind of competition will drive these low average teams out. I read elsewhere on this site how people were saying the #1 reason they quit is unfair competition, where teams felt they had absolutely no chance.

And I think this is why at least one team gave up and quit on us this year. And there was another team who didn't even show up at all for the last 10 weeks, they just didn't quit. Not a problem, since they didn't even have to pay.
Any team of 4 barely averaging 300 is not going to last in any competitive environment.

So to me, having 2 divisions determined by team average and having the teams in each division only bowl within that division makes sense. And it could be very easily done next year, just by looking at the results from this year - who is an "A" team, and who is a "B" team. I think it would be much more fair and much more fun all around for everybody concerned.
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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#7331 - 03/02/06 04:02 PM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
Kevin Lawrence Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 38
A/S/L: 35/M/Southern California
You may want to ask the people who are bowling.

You may have some 170+ average bowlers who want to social bowl, and you may have some 100- average bowlers who are really starting to like the game and want to get better-- they may want to bowl with the "better" bowler, or, by the middle of next league they may be a "better" bowler.

I would think about starting with the 2 divisions, and find out just how many people want to bowl in the social division and how many want to bowl in the "serious" division. Rather than just automaticly breaking them up by average.

Plus, this being a Work league, im sure some people will want to play with the "higher ups" and to network, even if they are good bowlers.
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#7332 - 03/02/06 09:18 PM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">So again, even with 90% handicap, I don't think this is fair. This kind of competition will drive these low average teams out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Its more then fair!

The reason to handicap is so that leagues are more competative. But you have to understand that a bowler that averages 100 and has absolutely no desire to get better, no desire to get their own equipment and no desire to learn about the game, doesn't derseve to have the DESIRE to win. That's my opinion.

Why should all the people that work at getting better and therefore have higher averages be penalized because lower average bowlers don't want to work at their game and get to have handicap bring them up to even with higher skilled bowlers. Therefore 90% is more then fair. When I was in Jrs the common handicap was 66%.

I can see the writing on the wall though. This is a "fun" league. Well then there shouldn't be any scoring then. No team placements, no ranking. You just bowl, no scores, if its a "fun" league.

If enough people are not happy with the rules then getting the league sanctioned gives them some automatic rules, guidelines and protection from unethical leaders (I won't call them officers). The actual sanctioning of the league is a very nominal fee. But the per bowler sanction card will cost them yearly. Then they are eligible for all USBC honor score awards.

$11 seems high to me for league play without any prize fund at all. Most secretarys in this area get between .75 and 1.25/bowler per weeks. That leaves $10 for lineage from the house. So $3.33/game. Is that the going rate in the house if you were to walk in off the street to bowl? What's the house charging the league for lineage? One thing I'd want to know is exactly where your weekly money is going. A sanctioned league always has such stats given out at the beginning of league season.

Erin

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#7333 - 03/15/06 10:04 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
Erin, when a team of 4 averaging near 700 bowls a team of 4 averaging just over 300, one of 2 things is going to happen, and neither is good.

Either:
a) the better team will laugh them out of the building every week, eventually leading to discuraged bowlers who will give up and stop bowling.

or

b) One of the low average bowlers on the lower team will catch fire and bowl way over his head and end up beating the better team. We all know its much easier for a low average bowler to bowl way over his head - 100 pins over, say - than it is for a higher average player to have that kind of game. At least 3 times this year, this league saw a guy whose average was under 100, something like 94, have games over 200. And that's totally ridiculous, and shouldn't happen. This makes the better teams mad, and they start talking about not wanting to bowl anymore in this 'garbage' league - again, causing people to quit and costing the league teams or players.

The idea is to build the league, not make people so mad every week that they want to quit and not come back.
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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#7334 - 03/15/06 10:25 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
To walk off the street and bowl a game here, it costs $4.50 per game. Senior Citizens get $3.50. Sometimes they have specials where you can rent a lane for $20/hr. So I guess we can't complain about $3.33 per game.

I don't know the details - but I don't think the girl in HR gets paid anything out of league fees. And part of any extra money there is might go to the lanes to make up for the people who didn't pay for the weeks they didn't show up - I guess?

Again, we had at least one full team who didn't show up at all for the last 10 - 12 weeks of bowling. And they weren't obligated to pay at all for the weeks they missed. I guess the center has to make some money. I don't think its like they got rich from our league.
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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#7335 - 03/15/06 11:51 AM Re: Training, Reading, etc, to become league officer?
Strode Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 2
A/S/L: 37/M/IL
I don't see the issue here. If you have seven teams that are serious; sanction a league. If the other bowlers aren't interested they can bowl a few lanes down. Sanctioning a league is easy, and it gives you as the bowler some piece of mind. The 100 average bowlers will get better as they see a reason to improve. This is what an award system is for. USBC sanctioning provides ample awards for the lower bowlers. It gives them a reason to improve, and makes the league more fun for them. When your league is running smoothly, and everyone is having fun, the others will come around. Flash a couple of 75 pin over average patches around, and they will be all over it. From the sounds of it, a sanctioned league with seven competitive teams is better than a non sanctioned with no real rules.

BLS rocks by the way. It has made the job of league secretary much easier than years passed.

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