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#7265 - 01/30/06 11:43 PM Ball Spec Changes.............
deuce2point0 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 106
A/S/L: 25/M/Dallas Tx
The more and more that I look at the USBC website the more and more scared I get. They seem to want to take the technology out of bowling? I was not bowling in the 80's but that seems to me what they are trying to go back to, basically taking all the diversity out of the balls. Taking the balance holes out and putting the CG with in 1 inch of the grip line seems like a bad move all around. I am a 180 avg. bowler and I have about 13 balls all that do something different and I like it like that. I like to put arsenals together and see what happens it is part of bowling to me. Why do they not put as much emphasis on the bowling center (lanes)? Allot of people bowl now because it is fun because the BALL/LANES helps them. Numbers are down from 50's-80's when bowling was king so why make more people leave. I know nothing is final but come on lets get this right.

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#7266 - 01/31/06 02:50 AM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lane Mech Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 6
A/S/L: 25/M/FLorida
If I am correct that didn't pass. Even if you changed the ball's, the proprietor's would change the lane condition's for higher scores. Then if you change the lane conditions ball company's would change the ball's. If they are wanting to make a change, they would have to change both. Lets face it higher the scores at a house the more business they get. Everyone wants to average 200 any more. I think that the USBC is more concerned with the amount of awards they give out than making bowlers happy.
We currently run a sport shot league. After a couple of seasons on this shot, averages are almost as high as the "house" condition. People adjust to these conditions the same as they did with the typical house pattern. All the changes they are trying to make will hurt the average bowler. Anyone averaging over 200 really wont be affected as much as a 160-190 bowler. Most business a center's are the 160-190 range. I don't think that any of these changes will go through.
I am currently averaging 220 on our house pattern. My average on the sport patterns is about 210. If bowled as much on the sport conditions as I did on the house condition I would be the same. I really don't care what changes they make. I will just make changes in my game to be better with whatever is given to me. I just shot 300 with an Ebonite Maxim which is plastic. You don't have to have all of this new stuff. Just practice to be the best you can.

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#7267 - 01/31/06 08:17 AM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
It's not that they want to take the diversity out of the balls. In the 80's there were a lot of different balls out there to. They just didn't make people average 200 who had no business averaging 200. I personally think that todays game of bowling is a joke. Todays game is a carry contest. People can go out and buy a hook-in-a-box and not learn how to throw the ball properly. Then they complain and curse the lanes if they don't carry every shot. You try to explain to someone that it isn't enough to just hit the pocket and how to figure out what they need to do to carry and they don't want to hear it. Their solution is to buy another ball or go to a center where they can carry without having to think about it.

I think that the easier conditions and todays super balls are the reason the number of bowlers is down. I know quite a few people who've quit because they didn't think bowling was challenging anymore. I think it does have to get tougher and I think we will loose people, but in the long run I think it will be better for the sport. And I think a good start would be to require a certian ratio on the lane and a fair amount more oil on the gutter so you can't chuck it to the ditch every shot and watch it bounce off the dry boards.

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#7268 - 01/31/06 07:06 PM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
deuce2point0 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 106
A/S/L: 25/M/Dallas Tx
The topic is still being discussed it is one of the top things on there news when you go to the web site. I think it is going to be discussed further at the convention in Orlando.

Lefty, you honestly believe that one of the reasons today’s numbers are down is because of super balls? And yes they are trying to take the diversity out; they want all balls to behave the same way to have similar characteristics. They want all of the emphasis to be on the bowler which is fine with me. The PBA is the Pinnacle of our sport and all Pros have multiple balls all with different reactions and still the sport is considered tough it is about shot making.

All sports have been made better by technology such as golf hardly any one is out there with old persimmon woods. Drilling options are an evolution of the sport, and Options a paramount in any sport as well as forward progress.

People do not quit because it is too easy they quit because they do not want to play. If I could shot 300 all the time hello PBA I would never quit.

Where I am in Texas close to Dallas most people still throw an older urethane ball (Hammer) and no one wants to buy a New Ball except me..... But those of us that do buy in to technology average significantly higher and I would challenge any one to come in and say that is the reason why. Come to my house and see if it a carry contest.

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#7269 - 01/31/06 07:28 PM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Well we can agree to disagree. I personally know people who have stopped bowling because they said the game is just to easy. There's no incentive to get better. The solution is to go buy a superball because it will make you better without having to invest any real effort.

I quit bowling for 6 years. I left the sport with my go to ball being a black U Dot. I was averaging a low 200 at the time and that was a respectable average, and it meant you were a solid bowler. A few years prior to that, my father lead the city with a 217 average. I came back and bought a Sledge Hammer and averaged 204 that year, throwing the ball like a pig. From then until now I have never had a year where I dind't average over 220. I've averaged as high as 237. This is rediculous! People carry shots that they have no business carrying, they have more room that anyone needs. I've bowled in leagues that aren't full of scratch bowlers with 20+ people averaging over 200. There is something seriously wrong with this game.

People don't care about bowling because it's to easy. How can we expect people to take it seriously and give the sport respect? We can't. Not until we bring scoring back to a reasonable place.

And about balls, believe it or not, not all balls reacted the same in the 80's. I had (and still have) several urathane balls that did a lot of different things. Coverstocks are still the biggest determining factor in the reaction of the ball. Limiting charesteristics of the ball will only keep them in check, but the biggest factor is still the coverstocks.

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#7270 - 01/31/06 07:30 PM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I forgot about the golf refrence. The only way you're going to equate golf to bowling is to put up nets in the trees that redirect the ball back into the fairway and put all the pins in places where it will funnel the ball into the cup. Better drivers and better balls will help you hit it farther, but for some (like me), that's just farther into the woods. That's no where near the case for bowling.

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#7271 - 01/31/06 07:47 PM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Kevin Lawrence Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 38
A/S/L: 35/M/Southern California
Technology has gone to far. Lets take it completely out of the game.

We need manual pinsetters. People standing at the other end placing the pins. We need to completely remove the oil. Oil was technology to protect the lanes, REmove it, finger inserts, plugs, bowling shoes. All of it. Let it just be the ball and some wood. Forget the fancy scoring machines, those too are just technology. It is to easy to bowl when you dont have to do higher math.

Of course im exagerating to make a point.

No matter what the ball technology is, it is still the release that makes it spin, or not, it is the 4-5 steps that make it hit the right spot or not. Sure that can be made easier by the ball, but it can also be made harder by the lane conditions.

My buddy has an 5-8 year old ball, cleaned once. He has a delivery you would never see in a PBA broadcast. He hooks the heck out of it on heavy oil. He can pick up a ball supplied by the lanes and do the same thing. He can do the same on dry lanes. His average is 197-210. Is it the balls, or is it the lanes, or is it just that spinning the ball has made bowling easier? And more and more people are spinning the ball.

Funny thing is, just for kicks during a Midnight bowling session with him, i decided to try bowling like him. He has this underhand throw thing kind of like throwing a football underhand, but he doesnt use his thumb, so he can only bring the ball to his hip and runs real fast to the line to get speed. It pretty easy to duplicate.

I had 7 strikes. of course "I" couldnt pick up a spare ball like that to save my life, but I think High revs makes the game easier, not neccissarily.

I know in golf, with all the new technology, and Driver spring debates, and ball debates, the average score of amatures is pretty much the same now as it was 30-40-even 50 years ago. The average golfer shoots around 100.

It would be interesting to see if the average for bowling has really changed over the last 20 or 30 years.

man why cant i just write one or two sentences. lol
_________________________
I can resist everything but temptation.

Storm Trifecta 15lb
Blue spare ball 15lb

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#7272 - 01/31/06 08:47 PM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
Of course im exagerating to make a point.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">And you're also committing the logical fallacy of Reductio ad Absurdum, or more commonly known as a slipperly slope. It's not a matter of just technology. It's a matter of lane conditions and ball technology. They're both responsible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
No matter what the ball technology is, it is still the release that makes it spin, or not, it is the 4-5 steps that make it hit the right spot or not.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">But people made the ball spin back 30 years ago too. That's not why people score higher than they should today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
He hooks the heck out of it on heavy oil. He can pick up a ball supplied by the lanes and do the same thing. He can do the same on dry lanes. His average is 197-210. Is it the balls, or is it the lanes, or is it just that spinning the ball has made bowling easier? And more and more people are spinning the ball.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">First, if you were really on heavy oil, no one, I mean no one can make a house ball hook. This brings me to my second point. Do you know why you started to see people "spinning" the ball, or what caused the creation of the "cranker"? Short oil. If we still had the 45' oil patterns that didn't have the dry outsides, you would see non-crankers be more successful. They started cranking the ball because the condition allowed them to. More people throw the ball like this because equipment and lane consitions make it conducive to do so. If you saw anything resembling meduim oil on the gutter, you'd see a very large number of these 200+ bowlers average 170.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
It would be interesting to see if the average for bowling has really changed over the last 20 or 30 years.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Are you joking? 30 years ago, only the best bowlers averaged 200+ Today it's the expectation. Award scores used to actually mean something. Today, people don't even clap when someone shoots 300, unless it's in a sport league. In 1992, there were 14,192 300 games. In 1962, there were 790. This isn't to mention that there were more sanctioned bowlers and bowling centers then. There is no doubt that averages are through the roof compared to what they used to be. Averaging 200 used to be something to be proud of and something that people looked up to. Not today.

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#7273 - 02/01/06 12:14 AM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Kevin Lawrence Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 38
A/S/L: 35/M/Southern California
I just happened to find this, in an article from a 1930's time magazine
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,759538,00.html

"A bowler who averages 190 is good, one who averages 220 is exceptionally good, one who bowls 300 (a perfect game) gets his picture in the papers."

sounds pretty similar to current standards. Except about the picture in the paper part, although, in some places they still do.
_________________________
I can resist everything but temptation.

Storm Trifecta 15lb
Blue spare ball 15lb

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#7274 - 02/01/06 08:05 AM Re: Ball Spec Changes.............
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Today, a bowler who averages 190 isn't good. A bowler who averages 220 isn't exceptionally good. 220 is what 190 used to be. Being a 190 average bowler today is like being a 170 average bowler back then.

Even averaging 230, people roll their eyes. I know people who average 240, and even someone who's currently above 255!

I thought I posted this link earlier but I guess I didn't..

http://forum.pba.com/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/26/t/003383.html

If you want to pretend that the game isn't a joke today, you are free to do so, but it doesn't change the facts.

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