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#7189 - 01/10/06 05:05 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Speaking as a Jr. Coordinator and a league secretary, I have mixed feelings on the rule change. Has USBC let the rules slide so much they're currently meaningless? Yep. And preventing any pre-bowl/makeup from counting for honor scores will go a ways toward helping in that regard. However, the old rule was to allow a prebowl/makeup honor score if an officer was present.

Disallowing any honor scores simply because it was bowled outside of league will have a negative effect on family (ad/jr) leagues for families that are social but don't make bowling their first priority. At that point, why sanction those "fun" leagues? I can even see barring all ring scores--but a kids' first 200? Or a clean game?

Bottom line, I understand they have a HUGE problem with credibility (or rather incredibility) of some of these scores, but don't make the officers the heavy in this. Let the officers serve in their function to "oversee."
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#7190 - 01/11/06 08:09 AM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
bimmerman Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 195
A/S/L: 55/M/Maryland
Angel, In a way I agree with you, BUT one of the problems with the ealier rule that requried a league officer to be presnt, was getting the league officer to be avaiable for the pre-bowl. I think taht played a per in the rule change.

I can accept an honor score when the entire team is pre-bowling, but under no circumstances should one ever be recognized for an individual pre-bowl.

Colin

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#7191 - 01/11/06 01:14 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
But that would be up to the league officers to be available or risk being replaced the next year. Heck, one of our desk people is an association rep, and he always keeps an eye on makeups anyway. I wouldn't have a problem with makimg him a Sgt. at Arms or something in order to have him be an officer.

Our A/J leagues generally require team prebowls, but we've always allowed kids to prebowl individually since most don't drive and kids have the most insane schedules I've ever seen.

A league rule saying that makeups would be available on Friday afternoons or with permission of the house AND the league officer would work as well.

My biggest fear is that while this rule makes absolute sense for competitive leagues where you can explain that it's just "tough" that a team can't floor a team and they forfeit, when talking about less competitive leagues, I can see a point where there's just less reason to sanction.
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#7192 - 01/12/06 07:30 AM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
bimmerman Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 195
A/S/L: 55/M/Maryland
Angel, I have no problems with kids pre-bowling. As a youth coach, there are pre-bowls every week in our youth leagues, but I still have a problem with honor scores (300,299,298, 800, 900, 290) being approved from individual pre-bowls. It's just not the as bowling under league conditions.

If a complete team pre-bowls and one of the team members shoots an honor score, then fine, just don't allow them to be awarded for individual pre-bowls.

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#7193 - 01/12/06 12:49 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
It sounds like we're on the same page. If we're talking about ring scores, I agree.

I still think the league should be able to vote to allow a league officer to have the option of babysitting.
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#7195 - 01/23/06 02:41 AM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
BSchaff Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 61
A/S/L: 23/M/Florida
What an incredible situation this has turned out to be... I heard of it on PBA.com's boards and decided to do a little homework on it. Well, let's just say that the details surrounding this game are questionable at very best. The USBC has already rejected the first 900, and are in the process of reviewing this 2nd one (along with the kid's appeal of the 1st game). Some notable facts here...

-As lorok pointed out, the kid's father owns the lanes. His mother is the league secretary as well, and by all other accounts he pre-bowls every week. These conditions, as others have mentioned, are vastly different from what you would face during a normal league.

-Isn't it strange that there are NO witnesses to any of this? What's so strange is that NOBODY from the bowling alley has come forward and made statements regarding what happened. If I were that kid, I would get the media all over this thing. Bowling a single 900 series is huge, but a 2nd would be an incredible story. Perhaps they were scared off by the USBC's rejection of the original game?

This kid is putting way, way too much pressure on himself by suggesting this kind of stuff. There is no way at all he could live up to the expectations placed on him. Very interesting story, one I'll follow.
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12/25/05, 11:09 PM... the time I dropped two C-notes on the lanes for the first time.

League goals: 500 series, 150+ average. None down, two to go...

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#7196 - 01/23/06 01:28 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
bimmerman Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 195
A/S/L: 55/M/Maryland
The Kid's father DOES NOT own the lanes, the lanes are located on Ft Drum, a US Army post, therefore the lanes are "owned" by the Army. Also, I believe that his father is a civilian employee on the base, not at the Bowling Center.

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#7197 - 01/23/06 02:50 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
BSchaff Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 61
A/S/L: 23/M/Florida
Hmm, I stand corrected then. Sorry for the misrepresentation there, thanks for the correction Bim. but my point about there being NO witnesses to this does still seem valid. Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that nobody has come to the kid's defense?
_________________________
12/25/05, 11:09 PM... the time I dropped two C-notes on the lanes for the first time.

League goals: 500 series, 150+ average. None down, two to go...

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#7198 - 01/23/06 03:09 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
bimmerman Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 195
A/S/L: 55/M/Maryland
And those who claimed to have been there can't even get the dates right. If a youth bowler in my center sho 900, you can be sure that the who place would know about it, whether it as pre-bowled or not.

At this point, I don't know whether he shot them or not, and I I'm not sure I even care. The amount of confusion and mis-information has totally overshadowed whether the 900s were shot or not. I've followed the threads on bowl.com from the beginning and the longer they went on, the more bizarre they got. Now, I'm not sure anyone even cares.

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#7199 - 01/23/06 03:15 PM Re: another 900 series? c'mon now...
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
For refrence, this kid isn't the best on his Youth Bowlers Tour, and is only averaging 212 on the walled up house shots they bowl on. Now I'm not knocking his ability, but to only be averaging 210 on these house shots and then turn around and claim that you've shot all these 800's and now a couple 900's smells a little fishy. Especially since there are 8 or nine kids averaging higher than him on YBT.

http://ybtbowling.com/ytdstats_classic_averages.php

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