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#71774 - 11/30/08 05:29 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Justinmill14]
BIGHMW Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 414
A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
Originally Posted By: Justinmill14
Your right it does need to stop. But us talking about it on this forum isn't going to make it stop. Someone needs to actually do something to stop it.


In the glory days of the PBA, either Joe Antenora or Mike Connor would have done something about it (ask Pete Weber about his multiple suspensions they had laid on him over those years).

Don't get me wrong now, I am a hardcore underground musician, who is totally against censorship, and pro free speech, and I do cuss on my albums and when i play in concert. Now that is a stage where such material is tolerable. However, television is a much different venue that underground clubs like The Ritz in NYC or Whiskey A-Go-Go in L.A., you have to mind some P's and Q's when you are on TV, it's not the same as playing live in concert where you, the artist, dictate what you do onstage, period.
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#71778 - 11/30/08 06:01 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: BIGHMW]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
In reference to Ken Simard, he probably believed they were into the break already as it came a few seconds after he said it. Sean Rash is a different story he did it between his frame and the other bowler's first ball.

I'm not saying that it's ok and nothing should be done about it, but that's for the PBA or ESPN to decide on, but since ESPN isn't getting fined I doubt they will so it's really on the PBA. Who knows maybe these guys are getting a warning for a first offense we don't know about. I'm sure they have some sort of conduct policy for their tournaments but it's really nothing new, just that it's getting caught on the mics.

As for the argument it is dragging down the reputation of this sport, that doesn't cut it with me. Bowlers already have that reputation of being beer swilling, overweight potty mouths. So it's not bringing it down just not helping to elevate it.

I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.
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#71782 - 11/30/08 06:20 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Justinmill14]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I'd just take the mics away. I don't think it adds anything to the show the minimal amount of self talk that does go on. Tiger Woods isn't going to wear a mic when he's playing a tournament. Some of the fun events sure, but not in serious tournament play. I think it was Mallot that said the swear to Simard after his big game. But could be wrong. Plus I think he did not believe he was in mic range or even on TV at that point. I don't think he should be fined for that one. The one after the 10 pin, sure if those are the rules.

Erin

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#71785 - 11/30/08 06:45 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Chubbs Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 494
A/S/L: 30/M/Niceville, FL
Originally Posted By: infernocal
Bowlers already have that reputation of being beer swilling, overweight potty mouths. So it's not bringing it down just not helping to elevate it.

I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.


Cal-
Agreed on both counts, sort of. Bowling is what it is, but that doesn't mean that efforts can't be made to clean up and elevate its image. What I've been saying is that the PBA can't afford this kind of thing if it wants to be able to pitch itself to bigger money sponsors and regain some lost credibility/ marketability.
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#71787 - 11/30/08 07:05 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Chubbs]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
I don't think a few swears on TV is going to do anything sponsor wise. The problem with sponsors is a matter of how many people watch. The people really tuning in to the PBA telecasts are other bowlers and not all of them do. It's also aired at the same time as football. It's not like football, baseball or basketball that is often watched by others that don't play those sports. That's what sponsors want, TV viewers to see their products.

The lost credibility is of bowling as a whole, not the PBA. USBC and ABC/WIBC before them have more to do with that and the PBA suffers from that lost credibility.
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#71792 - 11/30/08 08:28 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Atochabsh]
RLD Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 210
A/S/L: Pinoy-Guamie on the Bay
Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
I'd just take the mics away. I don't think it adds anything to the show the minimal amount of self talk that does go on....
Count my vote for taking the mics away. thumbsup

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#71805 - 11/30/08 10:56 PM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: RLD]
Rack Wrecker Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 460
A/S/L: 19/M/Cleveland, Ohio
I know that personally, swearing doesn't make me flinch at all nor does it bother me on TV. The problem is that not everyone is as liberal as me and as lenient on cussing as I am. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this type of thing but in my opinion, it doesn't phase me. I myself swear while bowling as do plenty of people I've seen around me. However, being a professional and being on TV, it is automatically a different story and people must be careful. I agree that the sponsors probably won't bat an eyelash at this type of thing but its still probably not a good idea to tempt, simply because its TV and they are supposed to be professionals. I guess the biggest issue I have is that freedom of speech is great and I agree with it in this case. But, you won't see televised baseball games or football games with the players swearing on. I don't think bowling should be any different even though I don't particularly mind swearing.
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#71806 - 12/01/08 12:31 AM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Rack Wrecker]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
I think the swearing issue is overblown on a lot of fronts. So they're pros, but they're human, too, and I have bowled with Ken Simard on a couple of occasions and I know his language isn't always, well, "clean" - more like colorful (I can relate). Personally, I don't care, and I don't feel the "f-bombs" or anything along those lines are killing sponsorships or the credibility of the sport. The sport itself has diminished its credibility on its own, but I digress.

What bothers me is the double standard that sponsors and viewers seem to have. I didn't hear any outrage from viewers or sponsors after Tiger Woods had this outburst. Nobody's asking to take away the mics from the tee box or from the fairway reporters. Tiger might've been fined, but nobody's saying, "Gee, how unprofessional of him to do that." Golf seems to be pretty strong and it's still selling, and it's supposed to be a "white collar sport" and "gentleman's game". But let's not swear on the lanes - no no, what a travesty that would be. People aren't as "shocked" by swearing on TV or by athletes as much as they were 20, even 30 years ago.

Originally Posted By: infernocal
I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.

I couldn't agree more. At least women's bowling is trying to make a comeback Hopefully none of them will cuss. Couldn't have that, now, could we?
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#71807 - 12/01/08 01:02 AM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Brian Longo]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9808
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Well, I didn't get to see or hear this. It seems that snow on my satellite dish, disrupted the transmission. It is now almost Midnight, and I still am without any TV.

I got to paint the front hall, and put up some XMas decorations, instead.

About 10 pm, I called my satellite service to see if there was anything I could do. Got some young lady in Idaho, who put me through some restart, and unplug/replug routines. All to no avail. Then she switched me to the technical department. I waited a few minutes for someone to pick up, and explained my problem again. Then she gave me her technical advice. She noticed there was snow in the Chicago forecast, and said that was the problem. I went outside, looked on the roof and could see snow building up on the dish. I asked her how to get it off. She said, "make snowballs, and throw them at the dish. It may shake the rest of the snow off."

Great technical support!!! Throw snowballs.

I think I'll make a snowman too, while I am out there.
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#71815 - 12/01/08 06:50 AM Re: More swearing on ESPN... [Re: Dennis Michael]
JedC Offline
Junior

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 28
A/S/L: 24/m/KY
Cursing in general has become a more nonchalant thing overall in the last 20 years or so. Look at some of today's TV shows that you can find on basic cable. South Park especially. After a while they were allowed to pretty much say anything but the F word and glorified all of it by overusing it as much as possible. That's on cable TV, much like bowling is. Anyone with cable can access either show as they so please. Granted, a sport is supposed to be more professional than that, but professional sports in general are taking a dive in the image department as well. Some of it is scripted (WWE stuff, which is a "professional" "sport" and people there said and did things little kids shouldn't be seeing or hearing) and some of it just comes from people who let their fame and fortune get to them. Pacman Jones, I'm looking your way. As you'll notice though, all these things continue to keep happening. The image of sports overall declines more and more, with seemingly nothing being done about it. Why is that?

It sells. Controversy creates cash, as they say. People don't want to see "boring" stuff anymore. They want edgy or anything that breaks from the norm. Tiger Woods breaks from the norm because of his skill at the game, but you know who's probably #2 on the most popular golfers list? John Daly. Look at all the crap he does and people eat it up. Two of the most popular poker players? Phil Hellmuth and Mike Matusow. Hellmuth is one of the best there's ever been, but people don't watch for that. They watch to see his next explosion after a bad beat. Matusow is also a great, just hasn't had the same amount of winning in his career, but again, people watch to see that meltdown.

I'm a part of that too, on league night. I carry either a 216 or 217 on tonight's league (haven't seen the sheet yet to be sure) and get along well with everyone, but I have my history with me of being a loose cannon. I won't lie, I curse quite a bit. The vast majority of the time it's under my breath and no one can hear me, at least. I used to let everything get to me. I used to hit machines, walls, chairs, etc. But, I was immature when it came to the game, and completely unprofessional. Odd part about it? People wanted to see it. They would watch and wait to see what my next colorful comment or outburst would be. They really didn't do much about it overall because I never went at anyone or cursed at someone directly, and I still never have. I've had people get in my face before though. There was an argument once over a late 10 pin falling, and the dude who's like 30-40 years old (I was 18 at this time) got in my face about it and words were exchanged. Eventually he said "Well you're just a little f'n a'hole aren't you?" And I said "Yeah, I am an a'hole. deal with it." For whatever reason, that prompted him to shove me into a ball rack and a scuffle ensued between my team and his. People were holding me back like I was gonna do something, I was standing there laughing at the guy. I'm a lot more relaxed and a lot better than I used to be though, so I disappoint people sometimes if I don't go off on something, heh.

Getting back on topic now, it's a society thing. Cursing used to be completely taboo, and now it's getting more relaxed and is becoming part of every day speech. When I'm with family or friends, we don't even think about it, the words are just there. That translates into league night. I was talking with my mother once while I was struggling one time, and I said "I dunno what the f to do." Just completely casually. I wasn't mad, it was just me talking to her, and someone overheard it and "took offense." Granted, the people in question were elderly and I live in an area where people of age are pretty hardcore about that kind of stuff what with religion and all (Bible area), but still. I'm also Italian, so you know how that goes, heh.

But, I do agree that our sport needs to be a bit more professional. I do have plans to join the PBA and would hope that when I do, it's still the PBA and not turned into something like the XFL. But, think about it. Those of us that love and embrace the sport would be sickened to see an "extreme" pro bowler's league. Can you say the same for society as a whole?

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