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#71403 - 11/24/08 05:56 PM New Video
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Here's a couple shots from league the other day. I decided to go with these because I felt they're my better ones, physically. Although, it seemed like I lost balance on the second shot a little after release.

Anyways, let me know what you guys think. A big concern is my timing/footwork. It feels(and I bet you can even see it) like my third step is where my problem is. It's rather quick like I'm trying to catch myself or something, but I don't feel like I'm falling. Can anyone comment on this especially? It's been bothering me, making me feel like my steps are 1-2 1-2 in a 4-step. I'd like to be more fluid.


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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
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#71429 - 11/25/08 01:10 AM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Sorry for the double post but I'd like to bump this the the top of the recent posts. Also, I posted this on another forum and this is one of the replies I got

"I wonder why you are tucking the bowling arm/hand/shoulder back towards behind you?

I would suggest right at your stance holding the ball to use both arms to hold the ball at start and have it set more infront of your shoulder. It might seem awkward, but setting the starting position of your bowling arm more so that you see it at start with your peripheral vision would be a better position to begin.

As the position you are in in the video, your right shoulder is placed way backwards from your left shoulder. That places your whole upper alignment above the waist towards the lane next to you on the right. You can't really recover from that because you feel as if you are facing the pindeck with both shoulders but you are not. Makes for a hard time lining up the rest of your body being the sliding foot/left knee and hips.

Even when you come to release of the ball, your bowling shoulder isn't at the pins but angles off to the right gutter. To get the ball to come off the hand doing this, you need to be swing the hand out to the right. You are losing alot of action on the ball by doing that.

An idea to work on is this- do you remember or have seen the old Allstate Insurance commercials were the announcer says as he cradles both his hands in front of him saying "You're in good Hands with Allstate."

That same action is what you need to try to envision holding the ball infront of you with both hands. Hold out infront about forearms length at waist height. This position is how you start out. Then taking your first step and place the ball with both arms outward like your are placing the ball over a pipe set out in front of you. Let the ball swing from your shoulder.

Stop yourself in your second step like near where the ball is in the bottom of your swing and repeat your start again. Setting up the shoulders so that they are inline with each other and facing the pins will be your steps to a perfect swing."

I didn't understand what he meant in the first paragraph, but based on what I do understand, can someone please tell me this post is bs and the guy doesn't know what he's talking about?

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#71430 - 11/25/08 04:15 AM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
bryhardt Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 52
A/S/L: 35/M/St. Louis
A side view video would be necessary to really see the shoulder alignments throughout the approach. Although assumptions can be made from the rear video, they may not always be correct. However, generally, you should start the angle of your shoulders to how they would be at the release point based on your launch angle.

I might agree a little with the posters comment about starting the ball a little more to the inside of your body. Possibly between your shoulder and chin. But in doing so, I would have you take your second step (right foot) and place it in front of your left foot like walking a tight rope. After several shots I would re-evaluate. What I would be watching for is to see is if your swing plane is a little less behind you, your posture remains more constant at this step, and the ball clears your leg/hip easier.

Another item I would address early on is simply trying to bend the knee of the right leg during the release while keeping the right foot below the height of the left knee. Again after several shots re-evaluate. I would look for you to be in a stronger position for the release.

Post some side shots if you get a chance.









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#71433 - 11/25/08 05:19 AM Re: New Video [Re: bryhardt]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Will will try to get a side view in the near future. That will help to at least determine my timing better. I did receive one tip from someone else that I will try out. I don't know if you're suggesting to try the things like my second step in front of my first and keeping the trail leg lower, but I think I will either way. However, the thing I haven't really liked about taking the step in front my my first to clear the hip is it forces me to finish some boards left of where I started. I'm used to finishing on the same board I started for alignment purposes.

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#71434 - 11/25/08 07:26 AM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
More thoughts on the swing plane, and why it's a problem. When you push away, you push out to the right a bit. It looks close to your target line - maybe a pinch right. On the way back, the ball comes behind you, which is ok if you're opening up the lanes, but you're not really. As the ball comes down, if it stays on the plane it's swinging on it would hit the first arrow and gutter at 25 feet, so you redirect it with your release to go towards your target. Watch the bottom of the swing closely - the ball changes direction when you release it, to the left. What that other poster and bryhardt are trying to do (methinks) is keep the ball on that target line the whole time so that you don't have to redirect it.
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#71451 - 11/25/08 06:18 PM Re: New Video [Re: cgeorg]
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
Since nobody's mentioned the footwork...ideally, you should have a gradual acceleration to the line, and to me it looks like you pause a bit on the fourth step. If you want a more fluid approach, you'll need to concentrate on quickening that step, then work backwards from there.

Can't help you with the swing plane, but I like CG's comment about opening up the lanes. If you could add a couple more revs, your current swing plane would be a strength rather than a problem. (Obviously, you'll still want to be able to adjust so you can play the outside of the lane.)
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#71463 - 11/25/08 07:54 PM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
You ideally want to start the ball under your chin and let it swing back in line with your head and swing back down under your chin at the release. If your chin is pointed toward the target/break point, then that is where the ball will go.

You can video yourself from behind and see the ball swing start under your chin and stay in line with your head throughout the swing.

I don't see anything wrong with your feet, at least not in this video, a close up would help.

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#71478 - 11/25/08 05:47 PM Re: New Video [Re: CoachJim]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Thanks for the replies.

cgeorg: I can see what you mean about me redirecting the ball at release. My shoulders and swing plane are directed pretty well towards the gutter. I think part of the reason for that is I was playing a small swing shot and trying to open up a bit for it, but I overdid it. And it's hard to say why I redirected the shot, it makes me think I do that almost all the time. As for that other poster, I thought he was talking about my stance the entire time(which I stil don't quite get), but it seems he was trying to say what you are about my swing plane and shoulders in part of the post.

untutored: My 4th step isn't so much a pause, as it is just plain slower. Like I said my third step feels fast, and because of that, making the next steps faster would result in rushing and getting to the line too early. That's what I think anyways.

I've received some suggestions that might help take the feel of my quick third step away. I'll have to try them and see if I feel better then. To get my swing plane in order, I have no choice but to step in front of my first one, is that correct?

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#71690 - 11/29/08 03:54 AM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Got another video while at the lanes today. I was working on a few things so let me know what you think.



P.S. Sorry if it's a bad view but I wanted to keep the camera close by since it was kinda busy there.

Edit: I don't know what happened but some how my shots kept skipping between 1:05 and 2:45.

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#71693 - 11/29/08 07:49 AM Re: New Video [Re: Jay R.]
Luksa Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 261
A/S/L: 29/M/Slovenia
Amateur, to me it looks like your 3rd step is short (distance-wise), while your 4th step is long.

What you should do is increase the length of your 3rd step and decrease the length of your 4th step. This should get you in a better body position for the slide. When the 4th step touches the ground, the right heel should be just slightly in front of the left foot toes - there really should't more than 1ft between the two feet.

Watch your hips - they are opening and closing - because of your footwork. If you change your footwork to left=long, right=short, your hips will stop moving and stay a little open throughout the approach, which would help them keep clear of the swing.

Also, it appears as if you are slowing down the swing at the beginning (but not much). Just let the ball fall. This may be caused by improper fit, which causes you to grab the ball a little, because you feel it's going to fall off your hand if you just let it fall. Try to trust the ball completely and let it fall off you hand if it wants to. If it stays on, you'll know it will stay on... and if it falls off, you'll know you were gripping it before and need to fix your grip with tape or redrilling.
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