OK, thanks, Like I said, I never bowled using the 100% of the difference system. That's the point I was missing. If his average is 240 and the limit is 210, he's a negative handicap, and they don't take back the 30 pins, they only give him zero. So his team was "holding" 30 pins, so to speak. That makes sense.

If they're using the 100% system, then you can't have that. But again, this is why we allsay we don't like the 100% system. And its why I say it gives the advantage to the lower average guys, since they have more wiggle room within their averages.

Or maybe, the guy who has a 240 average and bowls in a 100% of 210 league has 30 pins up his sleeve all the time. If you bowled against him and made your average then your score plus handicap would add up to 210 while your opponent just bowls his average and gets 240. Maybe he can afford to have an off night and bowl 211, 29 pins down (unlikely) and still takes your points. I bowl in a league that has a 100% of 190 system. The top three or four bowlers all have 190+ averages. That means that any time I bowl against them I have to bowl well above my average (152) to try to get a win (as do my team mates). For some reason, this season has been kinder to the lower average bowlers when coming up against these guys and have managed to take points off them at regular intervals. For the first time in years, they have not cleared out from the pack leaving the rest of us to fight over third palce. Maybe there is a God afterall! I understand that the idea of a handicap league (whatever the system) was to ensure that ALL bowlers would incur handicap pins so that if everyone bowled to their average then they would end up with the same score (in a 100% system). Then it comes down to how well you bowl on the night. The difference in scores equates to the difference in pins over or under your average. So, in saying that, your league has probably set the target about right or maybe even a little low (after that 755!!). The penalty for this system is that it doesn't encourage bowlers to try to raise their averages and this means that the league stagnates as do the participants. The solution? I have none, so I guess we make do with the best of what is available. Good series scores, though. 755... only in my wildest dreams at this stage. I will settle for your 612! Good bowling to all.

Hmmmm, I'd have to be honest here, trying to keep up with all that was just said. Well I have the equilivant to a brain freeze. I guess I really have never paid that much attention to the whole Handicap "theory". I just go in each league night, our Team checks out our opponents averages and we see who we are gonna line up against idividually. Never put much thought to the handicap totals other than at the beginning or the end of the night. And thats just to see how much we have to cover.
Ignorance is Bliss I guess.
Still backing ya on the way it was handled though MADDOG

Well see the thing of it is that we are s!@#$% either way. The 240 average guy is not a 240 average shooter. He's only rolled 12 games so far and has shot 757, 736, 619, 755 and is on a hot streak right now. He has been in a slump for the last few months but has now pulled out of it. He'll come back down to where he belongs and will be closer to my average. We bowl together on another leage as well and we both shoot with in a few pins of each other. The reason I say we are s@%^$# either way is because I could have told him being that he was a sub to shoot around 200 if he could and snad bag to get 10 extra pins. I dont believe in sandbagging and feel people should shoot what they can. Being that the handicap was already 100% of 210 he wouldnt have had any pins and that would have hurt us. I didnt care at that point because I knew he was just a sub anyway. When he came out the second night he shot good again and again we didnt get any pins but for some reason everyone else thought we was winning becuase of him and that wasnt true. We won because of the handicap bowlers on my team (The Ladys) shot over their average but I shot under mine. When they raised the handicap to 100% of 250 they gave the 250 bowler on my team 2 pins and everyone else including me got 50 pins added onto their scores. Now that the 250 bowler has dropped down to 236 last week he got 14 pins. I think if he came in and bowled 200 average and got his 10 sticks they would call him a sandbagger just as they call me for bowling 190 average. When the 250 bowler comes back down to where he belongs between 200 and 210 they'll say he's sandbagging and then will wanna lower the handicap. Either way leagues today want people to come out and bowl but they dont want people to actually get better. Truth is I wouldnt bowl a handicap league at all if we had more scratch leagues here. I have to bowl on a sanctioned league to get my 20 games in to bowl in tournaments. I bowl 2 leagues 1 with the high rollers and high end of the year pay out and 1 with the regular bowlers. When is it right to punish a person for getting better and becoming good? I say if you're not planning on putting 100% effort into what ever you do then you should do it at all. Yes I'm talking to you bowlers who come out each night and complain about everything under the roof except for putting blame where it really belongs......In your self!

Man! three out of 4 weeks a 700 series. That's great bowling. But even if they had taken 9 games to establish averages, he'd still be what you think of as over his head. Well apparently he's not over his head that much on that league condition. And if he is and starts dropping then the rest of the team has to work to pick up the slack. If you don't have people that want to do that (the ladies) then your team is in trouble. But that's a bad team structure, not the league's fault. I wouldn't have even started in a league that's 100% handicap. But do understand and agree that they had to raise the handicap to incude the highest average bowler.

One thing that might help you though with this overwhelming handicap is to think of the handicap as something that you have 10 frames to make up. When you look at it in frame 1 its like 300 pins in the other team's favor and seems overwhelming. But you have 10 frames to make it up and you are not supposed to make it up until the 9th or 10th frame.

Erin

yeah I tell the ladies all they have to do is look at the handicap score and not worry about the reall score because the handicap score is what they need to beat. They're always getting a bunch of pins and between me and the other guy we know we have to bowl at least average or better to win. I look at the handicap as having a 5th bowler to bowl against and that motivates me some....what i really look for is someone to say we are going to beat these guys tonight.....Then its really on!