Well he is a memeber of the team now and we plan to win if nothing else just to over come the odds. I should have told him to hold back and(sandbag) and we wouldnt be talking about this now. I'm not like that at all and thats why we didnt do it. Also if I stick to my own average of players and not join a hadicap league we wouldnt be talking about this right now but I joined to help these 2 ladys win. I also didnt wanna see the same team win 4 years in a row and if I have anything to do with it they wont! Thanks for your thoughts

Well, now that you have taken this guy on as a teammate. You two higher average bowlers should put your heads together and get your ladies to improve. The ability to improve a 120 - 160 bowler (no matter what sex) is almost elementary. All they have to do is WANT to improve. And I know the 100% handicap has trained them to not want to do this, but if they improve, you guys will be unbeatable.

Erin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA"> My captain was the only one not to raise her hand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">I have done more digging on this.

Did they ask for "opposed"? Was she given the opportunity to raise her hand in opposition to the motion? Because "Roberts Rules" are in effect. And it takes 100% vote to change a league rule that has been already voted in prior, according to USBC.

If she was not given the opportunity to raise her hand an oppose the motion then its not a legal vote. If she was given the option and just didn't vote, well then that's her fault and to your teams' detriment. She's abstained. You might have 10 days to protest. If she was NOT given the chance to oppose. You should contact your association to make sure.

Erin

Well yeah and thats the bad news. I too found this rule and or should I say someone else from another board brought it to my attention. I at first remember the captain saying she was the only one not to raise her hand so I called her the other day to ask again if in fact she raised her hand or not. She told me she thought it was a % vote and when she seen she was the only one not to raise her hand she thought she would lose the vote anyway and let it go. They then sealed the deal by making her sign a paper saying she voted with the rest of them. When I told her what I found out she was up set and said she told her self not to sign the paper but she just went ahead anyway. Now I think its nothing we can do because they have it in writing. I told her next time come to me and the rest of the team before voting on something like that first. The only thing I can do at this point is wait until they want to lower the handicap again. Like I said before when his average comes down to be closer to mine he will get more pins and thats going to come back to bite the league once again. This time how ever we wont vote the same to lower it.
As for helping the ladys on the team....I bowled with them last year and have been working with them all along. Funny thing is one of the ladys bowled pretty good the first week my friend subed. She then said we need him on the team because he inspires her to bowl better. Of course I was thinking to my self what am i chopped liver? This kinda got to me because I was the one working with her and got her average up 20 sticks from last year. My buddy bowls one night and people look at him as the bowling god or something. Everyone seems to forget we was winning before him and we would still win with out him.

Sounds like the league Board knew what was going on with that vote. Sounds like they knew she was ignorant of the rules and percentage of votes needed to overturn such a new rule. Or else they'd have not asked her to sign a paper stating she'd voted with them when obviously she hadn't voted at all. Pretty low, IMO

By the way, was every team given a copy of the league rules before the season started and a copy of the USBC playing rules booklet? If not, you may have some more fire power because she was not given the information that would have lead her to an educated decision concerning these proceedings.

Depending on how railroaded your team feels at this point you could all give your two week notice and leave the league.

Erin

Maddog - some good news!

As I said, I never bowled under the 100% of 210 or 100% of 250 system. So for grins, I plugged some numbers in to Excel to see what the difference would be. I was pretty surprised!

I made up 2 hypothetical teams, Team A and Team B and assigned arbitrary scores. Team B is scratch 85 pins better than team A.

Under the straight 85% system, team A gets 68 pins (80% of 85).

But when it's 100%, it doesn't matter whether you use 100% of 210 or 100% of 250. The overall handicap is still the same, assuming I did this right. Maybe somebody who has actually used this syetm can double check, please?

Avg Straight 100% 100%
80% 210 250
Team A
Mary 110 100 140
Betty 140 70 110
Mike 150 60 100
Jim 175 35 75
575 265 425
840 1000

Team B
Pam 130 80 120
Laura 155 55 95
Paul 165 45 85
Ed 210 0 40
660 180 340
840 1000

660 265 425
575 180 340
85 85 85
68

Like I said, I never bowled this way, but it seems to me the 2 systems are identical. The handicap is 85 either way. Or am I missing something?

Thanks

seems like you're missing something....These are the actual scores based on last 2 weeks out of the 9weeks bowled.
First week 100% of 210
Mary 125 average
Bea 138 average
Me 198 average
Buddy250 average
So this means
Mary 85 handicap
Bea 72 handicap
Me 12 handicap
Buddy 0 handicap
2nd week
Mary 125 average
Bea 138 average
Me 192 average
Buddy238 average
100% of 250
Mary 125 handicap
Bea 112 handicap
Me 58 handicap
Buddy12 handicap
I think if they really wanted to make it easier on them selves they need to either (1) change everyones handicap except for my team....lol...Or keep changing the handicap up and down to benifit them. My buddy and I was talking last night and decided to not say anything about it anymore and wait until they wanna lower the handicap back down because me and my buddy will be getting sticks. If they lower it back down they would be taking sticks away from us and we'll be back to square one again. This time when they go to vote we wont vote for the handicap change.
To answer your question no we was not given league rules this year for some reason but I'm sure the secretary has them and can give me a copy if I ask for them. I'll ask him for a copy tonight. Also no sanctioned rule book was given out either so I'll also ask for that. As I see it now the handicap change hurt us last week mentaly and on paper but in the long run the change will help us. We'll just have to suffer through the next couple of weeks and wait for my buddys average to level out or someone else on the team to raise up. The only thing that could hurt us is if they lower the handicap back down so we wont have any pins again.

The object to raising the handicap to include your friend's average is so that he does not get free pins in which to miss his average.

When handicapping to 210 and he's apparently 240+ average he can miss his average by 30 pins and get no penalty because the lower handicap covers it. So they had to raise the handicap to include his average. After two weeks of 700s, I'm sure any league would have given your sub some attention. However, I think they handled it wrong. And I certainly think they took advantage of your team captain's ignorance of the rules.

Erin

I agree

Well I shot 612 and my buddy shot another 755.....lol....we won 4 out of 7 points last night.