If you subscribe to BTM you've probably read the article about the case study done at Kegel camp this summer determining how patterns transition. For those not familiar, 30+ advanced bowlers were asked to play the lanes on a certain line for a 40ft. sport compliant pattern. Tapes were taken of the oil after 15 min. of practice, and then following each of three games. The main point of the article is that less than 2 units of oil were found beyond the pattern after the set was complete. The author then makes the assertion that the effect of carrydown is virtually null, and that oil depletion is the main cause of loss of reaction through early burn-up.

While this may be true in the case study, it is NOT an accurate reflection of the transition environment seen in most leagues. These were bowlers with very proficient physical skills. On a fresh 40 ft. sport pattern, I would bet that most of the balls being used were dull with alot of surface. That would mean serious Track flare and oil absorption. Again, that's not representative of what you see in most leagues.

While I would agree that loss of back-end from early burnup is more often the cause of reaction loss, to say that carrydown is totally not a factor is a major stretch. Every time there's a bowler on my league pair throwing a plasic ball, house ball, or even a pancake block reactive, the transition is completely different and there's no doubt in my mind that it is because oil is pushing beyond the end of the pattern.

Anybody else have a take on this?

I have looked down the lane and seen oil tracks extending quite a few feet past the 40 foot mark. But, as a ratio of the total amount of units on the whole lane, it may only be a couple of units tracked down. And that is understandable. I never use the units laid on the left side, so this oil is unused, but still in their comparison.

The problem I see is crossing the oil tracks on your way to the pocket. It's a grab, slide dilemma. Like driving over railroad tracks.

Chubbs the BTM article didn't look at plastic balls, or house patterns with a river of oil in the middle of the lane. Sport patterns breakdown quicker in the head area and the ball loses reaction and you see people move back to the outside, but on a sport pattern, there is oil to the outside, on a house pattern there usually isn't any oil to the outside. I think this adds to the way people get mistaken opinions about carry down.

I took the kids down the lanes last week to look at the oil pattern after the youth league, and you could see where the plastic balls came off the oil as there were long stripes past the end of the pattern and the reactive balls left a dashed line of oil after the end of the pattern. How much that effects ball reaction, I can't say, but it's there. If there is 8 times the oil in the middle as on a sport pattern, then there is probably 8 times the carrydown on the back end on a house pattern.

...and you shouldn't buy it. Carrydown is real and, as Jim said, mainly affects non-sport patterns because of sheer volume. I could create (and have created) a pattern that has little to no carrydown, but it would (and was) be more apt to burnout. Most people struggle with burnout, so the house goes the other direction and puts out too much oil.

Another thing to consider is not only the volume of oil, but the type and brand. I've known of some Kegel products (Defense comes to mind) that actually seem to get grabby as the night goes on. Also, there were a couple of AMF oils that were seemingly tacky.

But, yeah, carrydown is real. If you can, take a saunter down the guttercap or beside the first or last lanes one night after league and see the backends for yourself. You'd see what Jim mentioned - oil trails off the pattern.

I'd have to agree with you Chubbs, this isn't really an accurate study that is unless this is the control group.

I can see both points of this because of two different experiences I've had. The first is that on the end lanes at my one house you can walk the length of the lane and actually see the carrydown so it is there. The second, is that it might not be a factor because I threw my Black Widow Solid last night, all night and I pretty much moved a half a board left the whole night.

To refute that, first that isn't usually the case. I tend to move more. Second, I think my house is putting down more volumes of oil now. It just seems like more oil is coming back on the balls and I really haven't changed my lines that much. Lastly, my league last night, very rarely lets anyone bowl on the lanes before league after the oil goes down to give us a fresher condition.

Regardless, carrydown does exist, and I've run into it on both house shots and in sport shot leagues and tourneys. And moreso on a sports shot or in a tourney than anywhere else.

Precisely what I'm getting at, Coach. It seemed to me that the author wants the reader to believe that carrydown is a complete myth. I may not have happened in the study, but that is not indicative of typical leagues and conditions.

Well, the author needs to...um what's it called? Learn how to write. Because carrydown is real and we've all had to deal with it at one time or another. Centers don't strip the backends (I believe that's the correct phrase for cleaning the backends of lanes) for no reason. And if carrydown is a myth then why make Particle coverstocks. Isn't one of their primary functions to add traction in the presence of carrydown?

For being so non-existant, it seems that the different facets the Bowling Industry have gone to great lengths to help bowlers overcome the "folk tale" known as carrydown.

Demo,

While I see your point and agree with you, I would not use the existence of products designed to help deal with carrydown as evidence that it exists. Bowling companies are in business to make money, and if bowlers *think* carrydown is an issue, they will happily sell them a ball that is supposed to help them overcome it. And it will work, because the placebo effect is so darned powerful.

I don't think that's the case here, but the presence of particle coverstocks in the market is certainly not evidence one way or the other.

The only time carry down effects me is when I throw something with a fairly weak cover. If I throw something medium or stronger, I can almost always get more back end reaction by moving in, meaning that it wasn't finishing because of mid lane burnout.

I read the article and I look at it two ways to understanding. One, I understand the graph with the 3d display and two.. this was tested on a sport shot condition which I think was a Junior Gold pattern or something.

I have never experienced this condition or so on but there is one thing that I have learned and I don't think this was pointed out in the article.

Every center's back-end will react different ways and two what kind of hardness of the lanes will dictate the reaction of the balls and the movement on the oil.

Today balls do absorb oil but they do move the oil further down aka carrydown but they are burned away by the current coverstock.

In my opinion, I feel that today balls do dry up your line quicker but the carrydown issue is not as noticeable or will dictate how the lanes will react because you are not the only one bowling. Also, I believe there are other elements involved to from ball cleaners, polish products, coverstock materials and yes, rubbing alcohol/windex/actone which are creating friction in the midlane.

The key in bowling has always been about adjustment. This is just a theory opinion but I think we should all take it as a note or argument or just discard what we believe is true or not.

Carrydown is more prominent with less porous surfaces, such as polished equipment and plastic balls, but even the "sponges" can push oil into the backends if the volume is sufficient. As Lefty noted as well, sometimes burnout can give you the false perception of carrydown because of the weaker reaction, but the weaker reaction is due to energy loss before the backend.

You have to be able to read your ball and determine where your energy loss is, but that's not always easy. Experience will help over time, but even then you have to be perceptive enough and know you rolled a good ball. You cannot adjust from a poorly thrown ball.

Demo, are you kidding? The article was written by Joe Slowinski who is one of the best technical bowling writers I have seen and I have seen them all. If Joe says there is no carry down on the lane they did the study on, then I would bet your life there is no carry down on that lane.

The point to the article was that if you experience "carrydown" then the proper adjustment might just be to go weaker and move inside as opposed to going to a stronger ball and moving outside. The study showed that the oil dissipated from the heads first, this caused the ball to lose axis rotation early and then hit the oil in the midlane and skid past the break point. The actual carrydown from the ball past the end of the oil pattern didn't affect the reaction of the ball as it was already skidding still from losing energy early and then hitting the oil before the end of the pattern. If the bowler moved into the oil, or used a weaker ball, then the ball wouldn't lose energy early and would retain enough side rotation to make a strong move at the break point instead of skidding.

Demo you should try reading these articles before you make uninformed comments on them and making yourself look bad.

As everyone in this thread posting can probably see, this is one of the most complicated issues that we as bowlers have to deal with. I was talking to a couple of my coaches on the weekend, and we got on the topic of lane conditions, and I had to really think about some of the things that they said. When learning about lane conditions, this is how I imagine most people end up learning, usually in this order. (This is how it was for me, at least.) After a while, lanes are going to change and break down. The ball starts to hook more, so that means the lanes are burning up. On a house shot/easy shot, that usually means just move left, keep going. On a hard shot, move to where there's oil. Simple, right? If you're playing on a heavily oiled shot, and your ball starts to skid, that means oil is being pushed. (ala, carrydown.) So that means tighten up, or slow down, use stronger ball, whatever, tons of things to do. And for a big part of it, that's how lane transition works. What a lot of people don't understand though, which is the heart of the article and what my coaches were telling me about, is that some of those things almost work in reverse. I proposed that if my ball is not getting to the pocket in time, one adjustment I could make is to lay my ball down sooner. This would get it into a roll sooner, and get it hooking sooner down the lane, entering the pocket better. Makes sense, right? Well, what if there's a ton of oil in the heads? All of a sudden, your ball skids more. It works inversely as well. The heads are drier, your ball is going to start rolling earlier, THEN hit oil. Makes complete sense that a ball would be weaker under that circumstance. Another instance my coach said was that lofting could get the ball to hook up earlier as opposed to later, since most people do it to make the ball hook later down the lane. If in the case that the heads are dry, lofting it would get it over the dry heads and into some oil, preserving rotation and energy, and getting the ball to hook more in the backend. (Not talking a lot of loft either, like a foot or two.) This is why the pro's are so good, they understand all of this to a dot, and know how to make different adjustments at the right time. What happens in the front half of the lane can be just as important as the back half. That's my take.

I can add to this that I can never recall running into carry down on any house shot I have played. I didn't hit my target near enough in the PBA league to know what affect the lanes had on my bad shots, but I never noticed any influence of carrydown on my good ones in that league either. Maybe a small amount of carrydown does make it to the back of the lane - even in the article, Slowinski noted that there was 1 or 2 units of oil past the end of the pattern. That doesn't mean it has a noticeable effect on ball reaction.

I read this thread yesterday and coincidently encountered a heavy carrydown condition during league last night. Usually I have to gradually move left (Righty) as the lanes dry-up, but last night was the first time I had to move right because the carrydown worsened as we played. I ended-up six or seven boards to right from where I started in the first game. My strongest ball (Raw Anger) would make its move from the breakpoint (I was shooting around board 8)and not finish once it hit the carrydown which left wash-outs,etc from light hits. I think the carrydown was a result of a flood of oil in the center of the xmas tree pattern which was freshly put down just before we started.


Some people did well, but some did not like myself. I knew what was going on and tried to adjusted but sometimes the condition made the ball unpredictable. I struggled all night for a 507 series because I couldn't string strikes together to compensate for missed spares/splits.