For weeks now, I have been reporting of problems at our House. Bowlers have been complaining. No one is happy. Well today, a friend knew I was home and asked if I would practice with him. I did.

While there, the General Manager walked by. I decided to ask what is wrong with the shot in this house? The Asst Mgr won't tell us. So, maybe I could get some satisfaction. Here is what he said.

The House decided to put down a reversed block pattern. It is 41 feet in length, with an additional 5 feet on the outside 10 boards. In itself, this is tough. He also admitted that they just figured out that the lane machine outside spray nozzles were malfunctioning, and spraying additional oil on the outside. This made a flood outside of 10 all the way down the lane. Dry in the middle back 19 feet so stronger balls cross over.. It is an impossible shot.

He said they just figured it out, but have to order replacement parts for the machine. It should be fixed by next week.

I am glad I found that out. I tested it. Went to a weaker ball, my Storm Shift. Stood at 30 out to 12 at the break, and there it was. This is a line I normally shy away from, but now realize it is the only shot for me in this house.

I sub tonight, I will see if I can carry this shot on that line. Then, hopefully, back to a decent shot by next week.

A reverse block in itself is terrible enough, then add in the malfunction and ouch. At least now you know what is going on.

Yikes, what a nightmare to bowl on. Glad to hear there may be light at the end of the tunnel, Dennis.

What kind of place do you bowl in where they put down a reverse block on purpose for league?

Well I have never heard of that, I always wondered what an oil pattern like that would be like. Well, now I know, lol. Its good they are getting it fixed though.

Glad to hear that Dennis. Hopefully now everything will get straightened out.

Glad you found someone in that center that would explain what was going on with the shot. Reverse block that one hella of house shot!

There are several positive things that may come out of this:

1. your nose may stop bleeding when you have to move your feet left of 20.

2. You will get to keep your deflated nonsanctioned sport average for handicap tournaments.

3. Finding someone you can trust to tell you the truth about the lanes.

I just hope it didn't cost you too much to get them to put down the reverse block.

Also don't be surprised that playing that far inside will be how you are supposed to play the lanes even after they get the machine fixed, remember he said the sprayers were going nuts on the outside 10 boards, that doesn't change where you are playing the lanes standing 30 and going out to 12 at the break, so get used to it.

I am taking something positive away from all of this. I DID read the lanes properly. I identified the outside corners as slick. I found the line at the 12 board. I changed to a less aggressive ball. But, this took me 3 weeks to do.

I didn't however, move to a line that worked, and still have trouble on the 30 board out. The farthest I would move is about 24, and that, as I saw, resulted in diving shots. But, I would fight that line instead of keep moving more left.

Now, I have to fight the arm control as I move farther left. I have a hesitancy to pull from there. I don't trust that shot.

It does give me more knowledge to quiet the perturbed and agitated bowlers in the league.

Dennis,
Good luck next week. Reverse block is tough but machine laying down extra oil out there made it impossible. Keep us posted on how you do.
GL
Russ

When I bowled in the NYS High School championships in 1992 there was a reverse block out there, or something very similar. Let the ball outside of 10 and it was a goner. Pull it a smidge onto 11 and it was a crossover. It took me 7 frames to identify the shot and it took me another 3 to move accordingly (waited until the fill ball in the 10th). I lucked up and made the right move on ball that fill ball and never looked back. While everyone else was struggling to hit 1100 or worse for 6 games, I shot close to that in 5 (1074).

Compared to last year our shot this year resembles a reverse block (though I know it is not - just much flatter). There is a big OOB on the right side and unless you have a ton of hand you might as well wait by the ball return to shoot your second ball if you get outside of 5 on the break. There are quite a few people scratching heads and wincing after first balls - way more so than last year and quite a bit more often. Instead of the shot being "pitch right and drop it into the funnel", it's "you better have some accuracy and keep it on the high side of 7 at 40'".

But I have to agree with GP - what center lays out a reverse block on purpose? The other question is this; "why did it take so long for the GM or anyone else to identify the problem?" Sounds to me like nobody of significance there is a bowler in their own right. I'm sure I'm not too far off with that guess.

I have bowled in 1 ABT. It just so happened that they put a reverse block. There was no oil in the middle. I repeat: NO OIL. I was putting zero hand into my Red Pearl Shadow and putting the ball over 23 at the arrows out to 12. Needless to say the scores were okay for the straight bowlers. Everyone else struggled. I asked my buddy Larry about the normal shot and he said: This stuff happens every so often. Not my idea of fun so it was my last ABT.

The only time I have ever run into a reverse block was at the Bowling Hall of Fame lanes in St Louis back in 1998(?). I ended up using my plastic spare ball. Games were $2 each. I think I wasted about $10 trying to break 150.

Dennis,
I'm anticipating some type of reverse block for this
at Lakes because now that I think about it that was the shot the last time this happened at Lakes. You should get in this!
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Brian, My guess is this was the brainstorm of the Asst Mgr, and local house pro. When he fielded complaints, he would just say, "It's not the lanes, you just can't bowl". Needless to say, this pissed many bowlers off. Then he would point to the straight bowlers, who never get outside of 10, and they weren't having much trouble at all. In fact, he would never tell us what the shot was, which was my complaint to our Pres.

It was only when I bowled in the afternoon that I asked the GM, who was present during the day. Seems there is a new laneman who is having trouble with the machine. He was sent to training just a week ago. Maybe he can fix it now?????

Well, sounds like to me the Assistant Manager was on a power trip. I certainly would've let the GM know what was said. It may or may not make a difference, but you never know. Again, as I said, when guaranteed money starts leaving the premises, even the people in charge begin to figure out ways to keep it there.


It depends on the machine and the level of brainpower the lane person has. Really, it's more the job of the head mechanic and manager to work with the lane machine, not the lane person. The only two people who ever had the right to "tweak" the shot was me and my wife back in Georgia. Anyone else caught fiddling with the pattern was seriously reprimanded. Not everyone runs the same ship, I understand, but, IMHO, really only the highest manager should have a say so on the shot because, ultimately, it is his/her responsibility and is the one most accountable.

But, again, it would be my assumption that the bowling skill level of anyone who works in that center isn't very high. The objective isn't to handicap (or, more appropriately, "handcuff") the better bowlers in favor of the less-skilled bowlers. You can lay down 3 units across and it won't faze a stonechucker. It will, however, seriously limit the effectiveness of a higher average bowler, especially when there's handicap involved. Straight up scratch? Nah, the high average bowler should have the advantage. But add handicap to the mix and all of the sudden the lower average bowlers are kings/queens of the lanes. That's not fair at all.

I bowled in this house today, and talked with the Gen Mgr. I didn't bowl Wed as I went to the Cubs, or should I say, Dodgers game. I asked if the shot improved. He noted the scores were up, but the machine still needed some tweeking to perfect the shot. The outside was now playable for most, but the down and in bowlers were not doing the best on the shot.

The shot will be laid down tonight when I bowl, and I told him I would comment directly to him with my assessment. He blamed the Asst for talking him into this shot, and the lane machine for malfunctioning. But, things should be better. We shall see.

OK, bowled tonight on the "new and improved shot". There actually was some side boards I could use. Only out to 5, but it was there. As the Mgr said, the middle would not hold a shot, causing cross overs constantly. It is also better now. They did fix the oil machine, but you could still see OOB outside of 5.

I can see where he said a down and in may have some trouble yet if they get out to 5.

But, overall, I finally bowled without having to fight the lanes. 631 series. A big improvement.

It is amazing to me when center staff (those employed by the center) take it upon themselves to relieve the center of business for no better reason then the enjoyment of seeing others' frustration.

Unfortunately when centers find employees that show up for work faithfully for the amount they are paying them that seems to be the only criteria for keeping an employee. Many centers are owned by non-bowlers and they are under some misconception that high level bowlers are good business people (desk person, lane person etc....) for the entire center.

I'm glad the shot is better Dennis and good bowling; 631 is great considering you are probably "feeling out" each shot.

Erin

yup i agree with erin. most people that work at where i bowl dont bowl. the people that use to work there ( example. gm that got fired.) use to bowl and knew what the league bowler wanted. but thats not the case now. they have fired alot of people and now have none bowlers working there that only want the monthly bowler that is not in no league and dont care about the leagues now. its sad but i'm one of the ones that have quit league and bowling there because of all of this. its not worth going anymore.

Sounds like an AMF center.

You can have all of the "education" as far as the business side of bowling goes, but if you aren't a good bowler, don't employ a good bowler, or confide in a good bowler, then odds are you are going to struggle to find something that keeps the good bowlers around. Please, though, don't regard every "good bowler" as an expert lane person - that's hardly the case. I have known some decent bowlers who were excellent lane people because they were smart and studious about the game and the variables of the game and on the flipside I know many a "good bowler" who knew nothing of the intricacies of the game. I'll take a marginal bowler who can read the lanes and be objective about the adjustments over the "self-proclaimed 'local pro'" who wouldn't know the difference between blowout and breakdown.

Back in 1998 when my ex-wife was running a bowling center in Georgia, we had a mechanic/laneman who argued with me that his high game was a 310 game and that he carried a 240 average. Before you all tell me that's impossible (unless you want to add in handicap), I know that already and you get the point that this guy was not only an idiot, but a b.s. artist as well. I told him he should go pro in the real world, not just in his own head. He said I was jealous and didn't know bowling. I guess in his defense he didn't know that, at that time, I had been bowling for 20 years, but that's far from the point. Anyhow...

One night about a month into the season, this here genius decides he's going to tinker with the shot "because he knows how to bowl." Tinkering is, um, a polite way of putting it I suppose ("f'd up" would be more like it, but I digress). I never had such a horrible look in my life. There was no hook area thanks to him "lightening the stripper mix". Even my most aggressive ball at the time (a matte finish Triton Elite) wouldn't budge anywhere. To top it off, he messed with the shims in the oiling machine which complicated matters for later and not only did my ex-wife and I have to totally redo the shims, which meant 2 days of trial and error of getting things back in line again and also meant money wasted on oil and stripper, but we almost lost bowlers because of this moron.

When he asked me, "Wow was the shot?", I looked at him in amazement and said, "I don't know. Was there one out there? I couldn't tell under that Valdez spill that was out there. But next time you decide to change something, here's a piece of solid advice - don't!" Oh, yeah, the stonechuckers loved it...until their plastic balls stopped coming back. I shot something barely over 500 which was high for the night. If there was a plus, shooting 10 pins was cake because I didn't have to worry about my ball hooking away, and I left plenty of them.

I guess payback for ol' stupid there was pushing balls back all night. Man, was he cussin', but not near as much as the league was.

But anyhow, that's what happens when you let the "village bowling idiot" make adjustments to the shot.

See, I have a really hard time understanding this.

Why would any bowling center not care about leagues?? A bowling league is guaranteed income for the center...on X night, Y league is guaranteeing Z lanes with 3-5 bowlers on each lane, for N number of weeks. Guaranteed, in writing, with a contract.

On an open bowling night, there is no such contract. One night, the place might be packed, the next, it's empty. The rates might be higher, and the center might make more money per bowler, but there is no guarantee that ANYONE will be bowling that night. Even if a center is tun by non-bowlers, they should be able to figure this out, if they have any business sense. It's the same reason companies sell their stuff to WalMart....they may have to sell at a cheaper price, but they're going to sell more of them, guaranteed.

There's a smart man on the board, and I agree with you 100%. As someone who's worked in a bowling center and dealt with the money side of matters, let me give you my perspective.

Part of the issue that some owners/managers think is that "league bowlers aren't worth the trouble" because, admittedly, some of them can be demanding and downright whiny when it comes to bowling, so that sort of negativity turns off some owners/managers, especially if they aren't bowlers themselves. They see most open bowlers don't complain about the shot, or because someone is taking pictures 6 pairs down, so they'd rather have those "non-whiners" than the "everyweek paying whiners." What some don't realize is that a good league bowler is also a better open bowler. Not only will a dedicated league bowler bowl once, twice, maybe three leagues a week, but they may also come in for practice as well. Some bowlers you can count on for two to three times (some for more) what they pay in lineage for the week - and that doesn't even cover money paid to the snack bar or the like. In return, the league bowler expects a discount (and they should) because they are guaranteed money and expect their loyalty to be rewarded with a little "loyalty" from the bowling center as well.

But "glow bowling" and other gimmicks like that bring quick money - and good money - but its lasting power is weak. The money you earn through open bowling is no more lucrative than through a solid league base because the investment you have to make to keep open bowlers coming back negates any sort of perceived "higher profit" from having them as patrons.

The perceived problem some managers and owners see is the time and effort it takes to "appease" league bowlers. It takes an hour or more to dress the lanes. Oil isn't cheap. Stripper isn't cheap either. You have to have at least one snack bar person, one desk person, and a pinchaser at the minimum and depending on the size of the center you can easily have more staff than that.

In the age of "instant gratification" and gimmicks, open bowling is a perceived profit maker. It isn't, except in the rarest of cases. I'm sure usr bin geek (Steve) could give even more examples from his own experience as a proprietor. This isn't an easy business and the profits aren't generally lucrative, but it can be an honest business that's rewarding in more ways than one.

I've always said the same thing about why would a center want to focus on open play as opposed to leagues. Brian pretty much covered it. Instant gratification and most of the open bowl players that are not league bowlers don't complain much. Plus they pay full price for everything, no discounts and usually need to rent shoes which often is at $4 or more a pop.

In the case of AMF they want to focus more on the snack bar and bar money. That's coming from a letter/article of the CEO in a trade magazine. In my area they got rid of most of the center managers that were bowlers, some who were active in trying to recruit bowlers and leagues and hired new managers with backgrounds in restaurant management. I know one of the centers around me has lost many bowlers between that and just lack of upkeep and so on.

In my opinion if you treat the league bowlers well they will return and try to bring others to the center, plus the ones that are serious about the sport will come in for practice or to just bowl. You bring in more people for league and they will start to use the snack bar or bar. But since when do people always do the things that make sense.

I think AMF ought to apply for a "bailout". They might need it with their mismanagement practices.

Isn't that how it is with any business?? You identify the clients and customers who you expect to bring you the most business...in the case of a bowling center, it's the league bowler. You do everything you can to keep those customers happy, because they will (and this is the important part) KEEP SPENDING MONEY. Yes, they will expect a little special treatment, because they are such a good customer. When it comes down to it, though, knocking a buck off a practice game for the league bowlers is a heck of a lot cheaper than installing black lights or whatever other gimmick you can come up with.

The center my league is at in an AMF center, and I can see exactly what you're talking about regarding the snack bar thing. The menu looks more like a Chili's than a bowling alley. However, the place is clean (first and most important thing, in my book...I don't care how well you take care of the lanes, if the place is filthy and smells bad, I'm not going there), the lanes are well maintained, and there are plenty of leagues to choose from, so I guess I'm lucky.

Tuba, I've mentioned this before. The new house near me has NO leagues, and is not even sanctioned as a house. It does have non-sanctioned Senior and Industrial leagues in the daytime. but, the nights are dedicated to Cosmic Bowling only. $25 per hour weekdays, and $40 from Fri to Sun.

They don't care about leagues when these open bowlers pay those rates. A house 1/3 filled brings in more money than a full league.

yes nailed it~!! AMF center. my wife works there and she keeps telling them that they're fixin to go under if they dont get the leagues back. from what i can tell the league i was in had 13 teams. now its down to 8. and lost 3 leagues in just one year. that was nearly 80 people i was told. the shift leader i talk to all the time said that they lost that many in the last year. the one thing i like about her is.. she is a bowler. has been for 30 years now and has seen what AMF is like. and dennis is right, they want that open rate vers. league pay. even she said that. i bowled there tonight. first time in a month and it was dead. i was the only one there for an hour and then 3 people showed up till i left which was 15 mins till closing. i was there for 3 hours and no one besides me and the 3 people came in. 10$ for 3 hours anit bad really. plus they had some lanes that hadn't been used so i got one which was bad either. but yeah AMF sucks but its the only one till huntsville which is an hour away

plus they do push the snack bar sales way to much.

Plus a lot of managers are NOT bowlers. So they do not have the mantality of a league bowler, never had and never will.

On the other hand, Brian, its true. League bowlers are hard to please. Here's an example. Walk into my center on Friday and our beloved manager is installing (himself) TVs by the control desk. I told him it was darn nice of him to make sure his desk people didn't get bored by giving them TVs. He smiled and agreed then told me he had one team on one league on Monday that was going to quit if they didn't get to watch Monday Night Football. And an entire league that was ticked off because they were supposed to bowl at 9pm on Thurs., but never got on their lanes on time due to the 6:30 league lingering in the bar to watch whatever sporting game was on. So he's installing TVs to try to appease everyone. This is a privately owned center, so no corporate c rap to go through. If he thinks something is going to help continue business he just does it.

AMF (5 centers in our assoc) is loosing business here. They apparently had orders to raise lineage this season, which doesn't bother me. But they've lost bowlers over about .25/game. I don't get it but they have. Everything has gone up this year, why not lineage? Anyway, the two privately owned centers I bowl in have not raised their lineage (probably because they know they AMF centers did) and they've picked up leagues from those AMF centers. Entire leagues have left over .25/game hike. Plus we have a new center opening up at the end of the month and two of the AMF houses in that area have leagues planning on leaving even though they know the new fascility will be more expensive then AMF. Go figure. I can't fault the managers sometimes, its hard to understand league bowlers and what they want.

Erin

Our new manager and I had a little sit down talk the other day. His biggest problem is that he gets direction from the Corporate office that may differ from what the local bowlers want. He is obviously driven to profits for the center, and has to make decisions against real bowlers, at times. He has to bring in money to keep his job so he goes where the money is.

He has expanded the concession menu. Now has karaoke 2 nights a week. Has a person walking the industrial area to bring in Company outings, and has the cosmic groups more nights a week. Only 1 league folded, but 4 of those teams were merged with ours.

BTW, Wed nite cosmic, right after our league, has pretty much been shut down. Not by the center, but by the Police. They cracked down on curfew violations and underaged drinking, which was rampant.

180fury, No it's not AMF. It's a Brunswick House. We have no AMF around here.

Shaking my head over .25/game lineage brought me to the conclusion that those bowlers that quit were on the brink of doing so. They just needed that last straw to push them. Coporate centers have minimal staff, the staff seems rigid and inflexible in what they can offer and no incentive to please the customer. Seniors quit over no free coffee for gosh sakes. Doesn't even have to be good coffee and they will bring their own cups.

One league of morning ladies came into the assoc office with their sanction asking about the new center. I warned them it would be more expensive and they knew that. But I also told them they'd have brand new fascilities, probably more then one staff person that had to run the desk, phone, pin chaser and cafe all at once at 9:30am. Probably a mechanic on duty. And maybe heat in the winter. For that, they'd have to expect to pay more. AMF doesn't always provide that.

Erin

I suspect you are right, Erin. They were ready to leave anyhow. that just says that there were other things that led them to that conclusion. For some reason, or an accumulation of many reasons, the bowlers were going to leave.

We are pretty widespread out here. It is not uncommon to have to drive 30-40 minutes to bowl. What is happening here is the gas price has put a halt to many bowlers driving distances.

Our Center had a $.40 increase on nightly lineage, up to $9.80 now for leagues. We decided to take it out of league payouts, since the threshhold of $25 per night seems to be a max.

Bowlers will complain about another buck in fees. But, gladly contribute another $25-30 for weekly pot games.

That's cheap all but the senior day leagues are over $10 here and the inlaws pay $14 lineage ($17 total) in San Jose for their Thurs. evening league. Even our 9pm leagues are over $10 for lineage.

Erin

Erin, I bowl in 3 Houses. The 2 Brunswick houses are $9.80 and $10. The privately owned house charges $7.80.

Then again, at the 2 higher houses, the weekly fee is $25 so quite a bit goes to prizefund. I have usually received all or most of my money back from these leagues. The cheaper house only charges $16 and the payout is generally lower. Because they spread the money out over the whole league. I don't get my money back here, no matter how I or the team finishes.

Back to my lane problems. It is so true that the laneman controls the results of your bowling night. We found out that the lane machine was causing all sorts of trouble. I and many others who use more of the lane, just couldn't hit anything. All averages are down, except for those with little ball movement.

I have been sitting with a high 160 or low 170 over 4 weeks in 2 leagues, and really struggling. Well, the lane machine got fixed last week, and I bowled twice on the new/improved shot. I averaged 219 over 6 games. Sure made a difference.

Now, on the Friday night league, I have already gotten complaints from the team we bowl next week. One bowler complained that with my average so low, it is unfair to add my relative handicap to me bowling on a better shot.

Bowlers are never satisfied. It was ok for him to roll straight, and still hit average. But, now that I have a shot, he doesn't want my 36 pins added as handicap.

Seems like House Sandbagging to me. My team is 1 point out of first. And, guess who we bowl next week? The first place complainers.

On the topic of centers, the Brunswicks around me, at least the one I bowl in the most caters to real bowlers, but how long that will last is a wait and see. Around the middle of last season the GM of the center was given a promotion to somewhere in the Carolina's. He was a bowler, and knew what he was doing as far as running the place. With his promotion a new GM was brought in, and so far things haven't changed too much, other than some people quitting that worked there because the guy won't stand up for his workers and is terrible at ordering stuff. Other than one or two AMFs out of at least a dozen in the Baltimore area, they just don't do much for the real bowlers. I don't get a chance to bowl any independent houses since they are at least a half hour away, if not more, but the one I have visited seems pretty good, especially since its pretty much been completely upgraded, but I don't think it has a Pro Shop.

On the topic of Dennis's average at this particular house due to several circumstances and the handicap he will get, that's the nature of the game. Its not like it's your doing that the lanes were the way they were. Some people just can't be satisfied, they always need something to complain about.

Oh God Erin, don't I know what a fickle sort bowlers are. The more you give, the more they take and expect. I will be honest and say that I was sort of like that at one point in time but once I got behind the counter, I realized that a) I wasn't as bad as some and b) the people who work behind the counter catch a lot of undeserved hell. Bowlers would fuss about what was on TV, the fact that some people would bring their little brats to the bowling center and let them run wild, and complain about the lanes, and the team 3 pairs down that gets happy when they spare, and on and on.

I told one constant complainer that if they would stop pissing and moaning so much they might enjoy themselves and I might actually be nice to them in return. They threatened to leave. I told them that flattery will get them nowhere. Needless to say they didn't quit, but actually learned to lighten up a bit. Of course I have also chased off a few people with my "low b.s. tolerance", but we were better off as a whole without them. I distinctly remember chasing off one couple. It's not like they used to dump money into the center. They'd bowl league once a week, buy a coffee sometimes, but mainly get water, and then complain about the conditions or what have you. When the wife complained about some kid running amok in the center I reminded her that her husband was no better because it took him forever to get to the lane (because he was yakking with some other idiot) and he held up play for everyone else, and then would cuss when "he was rushed to bowl." Yeah, not many people like to have their flaws pointed out, especially by desk people. They never did come back, and frankly, that was fine by me. Let them be someone else's headache.

There are some league bowlers who are more trouble than they're worth, but as a whole, in terms of keeping things afloat, they're the backbone of any strong center. You learn that some people you cater to and they won't take advantage of them, and with others, you "dangle the carrot" close enough to them to keep them coming back but far enough away so they don't get it.

This is why I'm glad I have a choice of bowling in a scratch league. I'm sure, right now, if people saw my average from last year (223) and now (189 as of tonight), they'd be calling me a sandbagger (the only reason why it's that low is because I shot a 502 the first week. Since then I shot a 602, I missed last week and shot a 597 tonight). Fact of the matter is there's only 4 people above 200 in our scratch league because the shot has been that tough. I would challenge any loudmouth idiot to 3 games on that shot and see how they fared.

As an aside, our league is the only one that has this shot. The other leagues have a modified house shot which still is tougher than last year, but not nearly as difficult as our shot. I've been told it's like bowling in two different centers.