Curious, how many people look at arrows or spot bowl or a combination? Reason I'm asking is I basically look at the arrows on my approach then lose sight so I think I do a combination.
At this stage of my game does it really matter? I average 200 and don't know if trying to do other stuff will improve my game that much more? I asked this question with two other guys in my league both are over 210 average and both do a combination like me (I quote what mark I just spot bowl)

What do you mean by "spot bowl"?

Huh?

Are you looking at the arrows, or the breakpoint or a general area, or a combination of all three? That seems like alot to look at in the short time you start the approach and release the ball.

But if it works for you....

The only bowlers I know that do not spot bowl are bowlers that are not real serious about their game. A couple of my teammates do not use spots but it shows in their average as they are only in the high 140 range.

I think what is probably happening with you is what happens with me. You focus on a spot but sometimes your eyes and mind wanders and you sometimes lose Track of where you are throwing it.

It is pretty amazing you are able to average 200 without hitting your spot on a regular basis. I think if you can hit it more consistently your average will shoot up even more.

I spot bowl. I usually look at arrows, dots or some spot down the lane. If your averaging 200 you probally are hitting some spot on lanes consistently.

Basically throwing to one spot on the lane. I can't see the arrows real well so I aim at one spot but my eyes wander by the time I get up there. I assume I'm pretty consistant as I do average 200 but was more curious what everyone else does to see if I was rare? The funny thing is that when I shot my 745 someone said to me boy you had a mark that was 10 boards wide and I didn't throw the same ball twice guess I was lucky then.

I average in the 200's and honestly I sort of spot bowl...I have my mark...(generally the arrows on the lane) and aim in the general area. On house shots this works fine but, let me tell you that the PBA league tore me apart. I have some consistency issues. I need to work on not spraying the ball as much so I can succeed on harder lane conditions.

Reconbbs, yeah I've had similar experience lately because of the new house I'm now bowling at in league. I had an easy, predictable THS over the summer and now I'm seeing my shortcomings in consistency and aiming with a tougher oil pattern. I recommend picking that arrow, and sticking to watching it, while attempting a repeat at the same physical shot as before. These tough oil patterns show us how good the pros really are, to be able to adjust to various conditions and still strike a ton.

yea, I know what you mean...I honestly try to stick to aiming at the exact same place if it's a solid route to the pocket but my accuracy just isn't the best. It's part of my game that I struggle with. That's one disadvantage of bowling thumbless....accuracy. I've been working on it and i've gotten much better but there's still a lot of room to improve.

Getting better is relative to the effort you are willing to put into it. I have rarely seen anyone that could NOT get better. Its just a matter of how far you are willing to go to do so.

You bowl with a style that you know is inconsistent. You could change to a more consistent style.

You know you "spot bowl", which has only one target eliminating multi targets (like the pros do) and a vizualized ball path through those multi targets. What I would call you is not a "spot bowler" but an "area bowler". No specific spot.

You probably are not 100% on spares. Until you are 100% on all spares you can still get better.

We don't know if all other parts of your physical game are at the maximum level. We know you bowll thumbless and there's issues with that. But there's other phsyical parts of the approach and release.

Erin

I didn't notice he bowls thumbless. Hmm, that'd DEFINITELY be something to work on changing. Get that thumb in that hole man

You are right...but it's a style I'm comfortable with and I'm succeeding with it. I'd say that my spare conversions are in the high 80%. I'll post a video sometime soon of how I bowl so yon guys can tear me apart. ;]. Haha...I'm happy with how I bowl but I do admit that I need to become a spot bowler and not a area bowler. I dont' get much respect from the bowlers at my center because of how I bowl. It bothers me a little but I always believed in the say that it doesn't matter how you bowl, just as long as the job gets done.

The reason to get your thumb in the ball in my opinion is because of injuries. It may seem o.k. to you now but over time you are probabaly going to develop shulder, back, and knee injuries.

Make that Shoulder not Shulder!!!

The main injury form bowling thumbless is wrist and maybe elbow. The shoulder, back and knees you are just as likely to injure using the thumb.

This is true. As long as you are enjoying the game that's all there is to it. You can try to get better, but most of us have a life and finances that preclude doing so when we get to one point or another. But once you realize that you are plateau-ing then you have to accept it or make some changes. Accepting it is a perfectly reasonable option.

Erin

Cal the reason I said that is I read it in "Bowling-Steps To Success" by Doug Wiedman. It said those injuries could occur more likely because of the tense swing and exagerrated body positions need to throw the ball thumbless.

This is something I am starting to work on. I am usually very inaccurate, missing my spots all the time. This happens because I tend to pull my arm across my body, rather than swinging it straight. The next time I get out to the lanes (which may not be until Monday in my league), I need to focus on picking my spot, and not taking my eyes off of it until my ball is out of my hand. I think this is the first and most important issue I need to fix with my game, before anything else.

Slightly off topic...I remember years ago, when I bowled on my high school team, our coach said to "pin bowl" on spares...that is, use the pins themselves as your target. What is the general consensus on shooting spares, to pin bowl, or to use a different spot??

Sorry for the thread hijack!

All I can say. There are pros and cons in thumbless, two handed and one hand release.

Back to the topic in general. You want to target first where you are comfortable and more likely to hit that spot/target over and over with the little mistakes of missing it.

Whether you prefer to the target to be the arrow or closer (spot) or further (area). That is your preference. Everybody is different and everybody can see or do thing differently.

Myself. I have a combination of all three but I prefer using the spot on most conditions and the arrows for spare shot.

To find out what works for you. Practice different range and narrow down whats comfortable and what is harder for you. And work on the harder range since you never know.. it could be useful one day.

That really depends on your definition of success.

This really depends on what you want to get out of the game. Someone averaging 200 doesn't mean they're accurate. Unfortunately easy house conditions make accuracy less important that it should be. I've seen plenty of people who really don't know where they're throwing the ball and spray it all over and average 200.

If you're happy with a 200 average, enjoy yourself. If you want to get better at the sport and raise your average, you should work on your accuracy. In order to work on your accuracy, you need to focus on a board and know if the ball rolled over that board at the point where you were looking.

my definition of success is a 200 plus average on a THS and I've easily been able to do that.

And I'll admit that I have a lot that I really need to work on. Bowling Thumbless is my style and I'm going to stick with it. I'm happy with averaging around 200...Lately I've been able to be in the 210's and I'm satisfied with it. I've gained respect from the bowlers at my local bowling center which means a lot to me. BTW...the 2nd highest average at the house I bowl at is a thumbless bowler...and he finished last years season with a 237 average. Succeeding with out using the thumb is possible as you all know. I'll make sure to post a video sometime soon. So you all can critique me. =]

Reconbbs,

If you are happy, averaging good, and you are not feeling any physical problems from bowling the way you do, that is what is important. You are doing very well for not using a thumb in my opinion.

At the house I bowl out there are a few guys who do not use their thumbs but they cannot handle it well at all. They will rarely make a spare, chuck a few balls a game in the gutter, and are wildly inconsistent. You just have to ride out their hot spells when they get into one.

You are young so you have plenty of time to change your game later which I am sure you will eventually do but if you are happy now with where your game is at and not hurting yourself I say more power to you.

I see more thumb in bowlers with a tense swing and very exaggerated body positions than those bowling thumbless. I'm thinking it was this guy's way of looking down on thumbless bowlers.

I agree with Scott. Most of the thumbless bowlers that you see do things in a way that will cause injuries sooner rather than later. There is a way to bowl 2 handed and thumbless that doesn't put that kind of stress on your arm and wrist, but that's a very small percentage of the bowlers that I've seen who are throwing the ball that way.

So when you guys talk about spot bowl, its pretty much the same as shooting at aarows? Well kinda I guess, your just aiming somewhere else than the aarows? lol if that makes any sense

I see just as many bowlers using their thumbs doing the same things and sometimes worse things than the thumbless bowlers. I've seen some thumbless bowlers that unless you really watch their hand you can barely tell they bowl thumbless. Also Scott mentioned back, shoulder and knee issues, all of which can be hurt just as easily by a bowler with the thumb in the ball with bad form and lets face it there are more bowlers like that than thumbless bowlers.

Many people told me how nice of a ball I throw and I was like, "Yea, and I don't use my thumb" Almost everyone was suprised. They thought I used my thumb the whole time haha.

Reconbbs, you are young. Bowl the way you want.

We have a very good thumbless bowler (230 average and Nationals all events 11th place). He knows different shots and is very consistent. But he's plagued with injuries. He bowls, but you never know when something is going to get thrown off and then he'll not be able to bowl for a month or so. Its his shoulder, his elbow, his wrist, a hangnail on a bowling finger. He's in his mid 20s. He's extremely consistent and uses his thumb in the ball for spares. He's got a system and it works for him for now. But I think even he knows that he will not be bowling like this in 5 years.

Erin

Reconbbs, you are young. Bowl the way you want.

We have a very good thumbless bowler (230 average and Nationals all events 11th place). He knows different shots and is very consistent. But he's plagued with injuries. He bowls, but you never know when something is going to get thrown off and then he'll not be able to bowl for a month or so. Its his shoulder, his elbow, his wrist, a hangnail on a bowling finger. He's in his mid 20s. He's extremely consistent and uses his thumb in the ball for spares. He's got a system and it works for him for now. But I think even he knows that he will not be bowling like this in 5 years.

Erin

Personally,

I havent "spot" bowled ever in my entire bowling life. Well spot meaning an arrow or a dot. I basically know exactly where to stand on the approach for every shot, am very consistent in my approach to the foul line, no drifting, precise arm swing consistently, and I dont have to look anywhere on the lane at all, but everyone has there own style. My eyes are generally focused just a foot or two beyond the foul line at a particular group of boards, but yet I dont physically try to place the ball there, its just that my head is angled down until right after the point of release.

If I were to start spot bowling now, Id go from 230 down to 200.
At my age, if its not broken, dont fix it.
Dont let anyone tell you that you need to spot bowl. Its whatever works for you.

I really have to disagree there. Personally, I'd say success is a 190 average on sport shots.

Like I said, it's all about what someone defines as personal success. I'd also personally go with 190 on a sport shot, but that's me. If someone picks 150 on a house shot and that makes them happy. More power to them. Everyone should get out of bowling what they want.

I agree that success means different things to different people. But I don't think anyone should define success in bowling as something that comes easily. When I read the quote shown above, I see someone defining success as something that they can already do, as opposed to something that they have to work to attain. It seems like the kind of thinking that leads to the wide open house shots we have today - I define a 200 average as successful, and then tweak the shot instead of working on my game to attain that.

I am like you sort of. I play the arrows for my ball position and I play another board down the lane for my breakpoint.. the thing is I don't look at the arrows. I think I look pretty much where you do.. a foot or two beyond the foul line..I think where I put the ball onto the lane. I have tried.. and If I look at the arrow when I am releasing I will not hit it and my release will be bad.. I can hit any arrow though.. just can't look at them when I throw.

I agree with cgeorg there. To me success would be averaging 210+ on a house shot and 190+ because neither of those are something I'm currently doing. At this moment I'm 17 pins away from the 210(although I'm normally within 5-10 pins) and 25 pins away from the sport shot average. I've got my work cut out for me if I plan to be successful by my standards. I'd take 180 even in sport shots but either way I'm at 166 with 16 games so to get where I want to be is going to take most of the season unless I put up some big numbers soon.

I look at it a bit differently since I bowl in many different houses. I have the benefit of different houses within driving distance and a travel league. Rather then bowl in one house and do it well, I try to at least get two different houses in both winter and summer. I try to hit as many centers as possible on whatever they call house shots and average 200+. For me if I can do that in any house I walk into, then I'm doing good. That's my goal. I've been all over Northern California and two counties of league bowling. This summer was the first time in about 7 years I have not avearged 200 (in one league), I averaged 188 in a summer league.

Erin

I don't see a quantifyable measurement as the answer to good or bad bowling. There are many times when I, and I am sure many of you have seen this, bowl well but do not score particularly well.

Bowling is a function of numerous variables, and some are beyond our control. What matters is yourown control of your game, and your body. Bowling is a game of bodily repetition. And, repeating that movement, even under different conditions, is the improtant thing.

A bowler who is proficient at this bodily control, will see the higher scores come with it. Hence, 200+ in every House on a House shot. Conversely, even with bodily control, sometimes the conditions faced will cause lower scores, eg PBA Patterns. So, being able to maintain your control, even under adverse conditions, is the key to me.

Arrows, dots, breakpoint are just targeting aids. Without the control of your game, these help, but minimally.

In my opinion. The average system or bragging about having a 200 plus in one or more houses is a sign that you're a good bowler but it just a number. Always will be and means nothing in my mind.

A great bowler will want to practice/try different angles, balls, targets and try to strike as much but also be great on single spare, multi-spare and so on.

Personally, I have seen bowlers do miserable on simple lane conditions that I found easy in my mind and not challenging. Interesting enough, I have found more success on the longer pattern then the short or what many say is a house shot.

I do not have a 200 plus average or anywhere near it because I am not looking for that number. I rather aim higher looking at 800 series or a rare 900 but it is possible but the key to bowling is to have fun, not get big headed and encourage other to bowl who may be not be good or as great as you are.

Anyways, its easy for anybody to get a high performance ball and just throw strike without any proper technique or coaching. But, once they bowl on longer, heavier pattern or pba/sport shot. They will quit and blame everything except themselves.

Now about the thumbless bowling is just as good at two-handed bowling. Both techniques involved require more effort than you think.

Its not up to us to judge others how they bowl. If someone is having fun doing what he is doing and you disagree with his method of bowling. There is nothing you can do. I have people that laughs at me for going to Montreal for 2 years to a bowling clinic because I want to improve my game, my swing and everything.

Nowadays, I don't have thumb damage or I can't bowl more than 10 games. The whole point of this argument is. If you want to be better, you have to let someone with a train eyes see what you don't see. They can point you in a better directions then you can if you want to better or so on.

Those that think no coaching or any help is useless to them. That is their choice but in the long run they may start falling apart, get hard on themselves or quit or just buy another ball.

But as I learned. This game is more mental then physical and we get lucky from a margin of errors. The one that show up to bowl and bowl with all heart and effort usually are the one that do better in the long run because they want to keep improving as time goes by.

Also, I completely agreed with Dennis. I have many of these nights but I don't see it on the score board. But, you know what? I don't get mad or upset. It is a part of the game. If I was great every night then there would be no fun to bowl anymore.

Spot bowling was very commonly done when the lanes were wood. You could see variations in the color of the wood, and use discolored ones as your spot. Old timers used to say, dark wood gives more friction because it was more end grain. So, they would aim at a dark board somewhere down the lane.

It is very common to use the 200 average as a measuring point. ABT and many tournaments use +- 200 as an indication of your score. + 20 is 20 pins over a 200 average. Nothing unusual about this.

In some ways it is like Golf. After 4 rounds, you don't say I shot 280. You say you are 1 over or 2 under par. So I guess +-200 relates to the Par in Bowling.

I have 2 marks on the lane. A mark at the arrows and a breakpoint. I always have. During practice, I line both of them up. If I hit my mark and my breakpoint is off, I know that my speed is off. At the arrows, I shoot at a board. It could be 10, 12, or 20. One of my best friends who has multiple 800 series and a high of 861 told me the other day that he is an area bowler. As long as he stands in the right place on the approach and releases the ball the same way, he is deadly.

It all depends on the person. Myself, I have to have a spot to look at.

I agree with djRIPz that averages in themselves do not mean a lot. A lot depends so much on what others can do on the same conditions and how much bowling you do.

If you are averaging 200 on lanes where you bowl in 2 or 3 leagues a week and get in a lot of practice on while others that do the same are averaging in the 230’s you could be considered someone who is underachieving. Someone on the same league who could average 200 yet only bowls once a week and never practices could be considered overachieving with that same average. There are so many different bowlers at different stages averages can mean a lot of different things to different people.

One thing that Lefty made me realize is there is a respect level that a good bowler will receive as opposed to a good scorer who is really not executing well. I went on a rant a few months back about not getting respect for a night when I got a lot of Brooklyn strikes and outscored several higher average bowlers. That really made me look at myself and ask do I want to be one of these guys who does not execute good shots and will get lucky some nights or do I want to work on improving my Execution so that I will not have to depend on getting a lot of breaks and will be more consistent. I chose the latter because I know I have it in me to improve rather than complain about a lack of respect because I was fortunate one night to get a lot of breaks.

I guess we all have our comfort zones and our own feelings on what we have achieved and if we are satisfied with. I think the one thing to keep in mind is there is always room for improvement so be careful not to short change yourself.

Thanks for sharing your similar feelings Scott.

I do have to comment that I think the 'respect' for good bowlers is not always given to those that work hard except for those that see his/her games and watch how they play under pressure. But I have seen a lot of people praise the good scorers for being an amazing bowler or whatever but they failed to do well in tournaments or measure up to the 'average' that they claimed they have.

And I love how they look for excuses. It make me laugh because they do not 'get it' or understand the game of bowling.

I used to be one of those people until I sat my butt down and re-evaluate myself. And the first question was "How can I become better?". The rest is history from bowling school to practice drills.

So, it does paid to learn then think you know how to conquer this frustrating game. But the more you learn the better you grow and the easier you can handle yourself in a tournament.

The only secret that I learn both physically and mentally over time is to control yourself and never to think big or small of what you can or can not do.

Just like t-shirt said. Shut up and Bowl.

Controlling yourself is so important. What I have learned over the last few months is how important it is to keep focused on Execution and ride out any rough patches. Once a frame is done it is done and you can only move forward. I have seen anger get the best of way too many bowlers and watch it destroy their night. It isn’t easy but I have really got a grip on controlling that aspect of the game.

Another important thing I learned is that no matter what else is going on your sole focus needs to be on your game. If someone on the other team is getting lucky strikes, if you give up a ton of pins in handicap or if someone on your team is struggling (short of helping them with advice or a pep talk) there is not a lot you can do. Just do your best and hope you are in a good position at the end of the game.

Use the arrows. When you release the ball, don't watch the ball go down the lane. You can't will it to hit the pocket. Instead concentrate on staring directly at your target at the arrows. If the ball goes right over it, which you'll know if you're still looking at it, then you know you're hitting your mark. Tell yourself after every shot what board at the arrows the ball went over. If you can't, then you know you looked away from it. Rather than looking at the scoreboard before you throw your shot, look at the arrow you're about to throw the ball over. Stare at it while you're getting ready to take your first step. Stare at it as you take your first step, then swing the ball and release it, all while staring at that spot on the lane.

Accuracy requires concentration, and concentration requires a lot of staring. Tommy Jones, comme