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#67708 - 09/29/08 05:25 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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Action Bowler
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 287
A/S/L: 28/M/Richmond Hill, Ontario, C...
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In my opinion. The average system or bragging about having a 200 plus in one or more houses is a sign that you're a good bowler but it just a number. Always will be and means nothing in my mind.
A great bowler will want to practice/try different angles, balls, targets and try to strike as much but also be great on single spare, multi-spare and so on.
Personally, I have seen bowlers do miserable on simple lane conditions that I found easy in my mind and not challenging. Interesting enough, I have found more success on the longer pattern then the short or what many say is a house shot.
I do not have a 200 plus average or anywhere near it because I am not looking for that number. I rather aim higher looking at 800 series or a rare 900 but it is possible but the key to bowling is to have fun, not get big headed and encourage other to bowl who may be not be good or as great as you are.
Anyways, its easy for anybody to get a high performance ball and just throw strike without any proper technique or coaching. But, once they bowl on longer, heavier pattern or pba/sport shot. They will quit and blame everything except themselves.
Now about the thumbless bowling is just as good at two-handed bowling. Both techniques involved require more effort than you think.
Its not up to us to judge others how they bowl. If someone is having fun doing what he is doing and you disagree with his method of bowling. There is nothing you can do. I have people that laughs at me for going to Montreal for 2 years to a bowling clinic because I want to improve my game, my swing and everything.
Nowadays, I don't have thumb damage or I can't bowl more than 10 games. The whole point of this argument is. If you want to be better, you have to let someone with a train eyes see what you don't see. They can point you in a better directions then you can if you want to better or so on.
Those that think no coaching or any help is useless to them. That is their choice but in the long run they may start falling apart, get hard on themselves or quit or just buy another ball.
But as I learned. This game is more mental then physical and we get lucky from a margin of errors. The one that show up to bowl and bowl with all heart and effort usually are the one that do better in the long run because they want to keep improving as time goes by.
Also, I completely agreed with Dennis. I have many of these nights but I don't see it on the score board. But, you know what? I don't get mad or upset. It is a part of the game. If I was great every night then there would be no fun to bowl anymore.
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It’s the bowlers that must adjust, not the lanes.
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#67710 - 09/29/08 05:51 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: djRIPz]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3198
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Spot bowling was very commonly done when the lanes were wood. You could see variations in the color of the wood, and use discolored ones as your spot. Old timers used to say, dark wood gives more friction because it was more end grain. So, they would aim at a dark board somewhere down the lane.
It is very common to use the 200 average as a measuring point. ABT and many tournaments use +- 200 as an indication of your score. + 20 is 20 pins over a 200 average. Nothing unusual about this.
In some ways it is like Golf. After 4 rounds, you don't say I shot 280. You say you are 1 over or 2 under par. So I guess +-200 relates to the Par in Bowling.
Edited by Dennis Michael (09/29/08 05:53 PM)
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Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc
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#67777 - 09/30/08 10:35 AM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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Legend
Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1249
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
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I have 2 marks on the lane. A mark at the arrows and a breakpoint. I always have. During practice, I line both of them up. If I hit my mark and my breakpoint is off, I know that my speed is off. At the arrows, I shoot at a board. It could be 10, 12, or 20. One of my best friends who has multiple 800 series and a high of 861 told me the other day that he is an area bowler. As long as he stands in the right place on the approach and releases the ball the same way, he is deadly.
It all depends on the person. Myself, I have to have a spot to look at.
_________________________
================================== HG: 300 HS: 826 Cell, Special Agent, Paradigm, X-Factor, Erase-IT, Spare Storm (black)
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#67837 - 09/30/08 07:53 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: General Pounder]
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Touring Pro Hopeful
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 657
A/S/L: 47/M/California
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I agree with djRIPz that averages in themselves do not mean a lot. A lot depends so much on what others can do on the same conditions and how much bowling you do. If you are averaging 200 on lanes where you bowl in 2 or 3 leagues a week and get in a lot of practice on while others that do the same are averaging in the 230’s you could be considered someone who is underachieving. Someone on the same league who could average 200 yet only bowls once a week and never practices could be considered overachieving with that same average. There are so many different bowlers at different stages averages can mean a lot of different things to different people. One thing that Lefty made me realize is there is a respect level that a good bowler will receive as opposed to a good scorer who is really not executing well. I went on a rant a few months back about not getting respect for a night when I got a lot of Brooklyn strikes and outscored several higher average bowlers. That really made me look at myself and ask do I want to be one of these guys who does not execute good shots and will get lucky some nights or do I want to work on improving my Execution so that I will not have to depend on getting a lot of breaks and will be more consistent. I chose the latter because I know I have it in me to improve rather than complain about a lack of respect because I was fortunate one night to get a lot of breaks. I guess we all have our comfort zones and our own feelings on what we have achieved and if we are satisfied with. I think the one thing to keep in mind is there is always room for improvement so be careful not to short change yourself.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008) HG: 236 HS: 593
Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now) HG: 246 HS: 607
Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164 Summer League 2008 Average - 164 Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 182
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#67841 - 09/30/08 08:14 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: Scott Gannon]
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Action Bowler
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 287
A/S/L: 28/M/Richmond Hill, Ontario, C...
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Thanks for sharing your similar feelings Scott. I do have to comment that I think the 'respect' for good bowlers is not always given to those that work hard except for those that see his/her games and watch how they play under pressure. But I have seen a lot of people praise the good scorers for being an amazing bowler or whatever but they failed to do well in tournaments or measure up to the 'average' that they claimed they have. And I love how they look for excuses. It make me laugh because they do not 'get it' or understand the game of bowling. I used to be one of those people until I sat my butt down and re-evaluate myself. And the first question was "How can I become better?". The rest is history from bowling school to practice drills. So, it does paid to learn then think you know how to conquer this frustrating game. But the more you learn the better you grow and the easier you can handle yourself in a tournament. The only secret that I learn both physically and mentally over time is to control yourself and never to think big or small of what you can or can not do. Just like t-shirt said. Shut up and Bowl. 
_________________________
It’s the bowlers that must adjust, not the lanes.
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#67909 - 10/01/08 04:45 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: djRIPz]
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Touring Pro Hopeful
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 657
A/S/L: 47/M/California
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Controlling yourself is so important. What I have learned over the last few months is how important it is to keep focused on Execution and ride out any rough patches. Once a frame is done it is done and you can only move forward. I have seen anger get the best of way too many bowlers and watch it destroy their night. It isn’t easy but I have really got a grip on controlling that aspect of the game. Another important thing I learned is that no matter what else is going on your sole focus needs to be on your game. If someone on the other team is getting lucky strikes, if you give up a ton of pins in handicap or if someone on your team is struggling (short of helping them with advice or a pep talk) there is not a lot you can do. Just do your best and hope you are in a good position at the end of the game.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008) HG: 236 HS: 593
Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now) HG: 246 HS: 607
Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164 Summer League 2008 Average - 164 Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 182
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#69040 - 10/21/08 01:41 AM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: Reconbbs]
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Bantam
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 14
A/S/L: 40/M/Montana
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Use the arrows. When you release the ball, don't watch the ball go down the lane. You can't will it to hit the pocket. Instead concentrate on staring directly at your target at the arrows. If the ball goes right over it, which you'll know if you're still looking at it, then you know you're hitting your mark. Tell yourself after every shot what board at the arrows the ball went over. If you can't, then you know you looked away from it. Rather than looking at the scoreboard before you throw your shot, look at the arrow you're about to throw the ball over. Stare at it while you're getting ready to take your first step. Stare at it as you take your first step, then swing the ball and release it, all while staring at that spot on the lane.
Accuracy requires concentration, and concentration requires a lot of staring. Tommy Jones, commenting on his incredible success on television, mentioned that he'll get tunnel vision while looking at his mark, and that's why he's so good on TV. Personally, it takes me about a minute to get tunnel vision, but I try my best not to let my eyes wander away from my target until I see the ball roll right over it. Then I worry if the ball is hitting the pocket. This is how you can make more accurate adjustments to fine tune your game. You should be hitting the same spot down the lane every shot you throw (unless you make an adjustment).
Patience, also, is a key to accuracy. Don't hurry your release or your approach. That's what was causing me to drift away from my target. At one point, I was actually looking straight at the masking unit above the pins when I released the ball, that's how bad it was. I slowed down my approach and I became much more accurate and consistent.
Just because you average 200 doesn't mean you're a good bowler. If two other guys average over 210, then you can always assume the shot is rather easy. A more important average would be in a PBA experience league. Then you'll truly know how good you really are.
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#69043 - 10/21/08 02:45 AM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: coasterlover420]
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Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 418
A/S/L: 19/M/Tacoma, WA
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I agree with everything you just said coaster. One should be hitting their target every frame. If not, something in their approach went wrong. Although I tend to agree that concentration/focus will lead to accuracy, it's been said that one should be able to close their eyes just before release and still hit their target. Of course that's assuming they didn't do anything different just because they can't see.
Accuracy is a weaker aspect of my game, and I believe it's mostly due to lining up wrong, timing, and/or my swing. I think lining up or the way I finish is confusing me the most though. Normally, I turn my feet/body so that my bowling arm is aligned with my target, and I attempt to walk straight to it. I have to wonder if I really am walking straight in the direction my feet were facing when I'm swinging the ball because I'm a lot less accurate on that shot(missing left and right). It leaves me confused as to whether it was how I lined up or if it was my timing or swing.
I also agree that averaging 200 doesn't mean you're good. On a house shot, I'll generally finish the season around there, I've been 200 to 208 for the past two years(at the end of the league). I don't consider myself a good bowler, but more of an average bowler or a bowler that gets by. I joined my first PBAX league this winter, and so far I've averaged 169 for 20 games on the Shark(started at 159) and 177 on the Viper for 8 games for a total average of 171 in the league. While I'm proud that I've basically increased my average each week, I feel I should be in the 180-190 area for my level. To me, good would be 200-210+. I have to say though, I don't think I'm very well-armed with equipment to handle each of the patterns(although I should do well on some).
Just thought i'd share that bit of info.
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#69074 - 10/21/08 12:47 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: Amateur]
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Bracket Donor
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 176
A/S/L: 19/m/MA
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personally, i look at an arrow and don't pay any attention to the ball until the ball is past the arrow which i was intending to hit. usually, that way, i can tell where i missed and how to adjust. also, i feel that success can't be measured in terms of a general number for everyone, but rather reaching the goals that you set for yourself at the beginning of the season, whether they be a number, or an improvement in your game, whatever. for instance, after a lightning start, i set a personal goal to keep my average above 200 for the season, and only one week out of the year it was below 200, at 199. that, for me, was essentially a success. on the other hand, after the first few weeks of this season, i started with an average below 170, so my goal for this season is to get it back to 195 or so by the end of the year, and i should say that rolling a 722 this past weekend helped that goal significantly (my average jumped nearly 12 pins, from 171.3 to 182.9, from last week to this upcoming week). and another example, i usually like to pick one aspect of my game where i feel i am lacking, and work to fix that during the season. last year, it was my lack of consistency in targets, which did improve with much practice and Execution in league. a couple of years ago, it was spare shooting, which was successful then, but last year it sort of fell apart. so this year, my goal is again to fix my spare shooting, and so far i have done well. so, as of right now, i am succeeding in this goal. and, speaking of spare shooting, to answer SilentTuba's question about spare shooting on page 2, i generally line the pin up with my body, and find the target at the arrows which i need to hit to hit the pin dead center. usually, this gives me about a board on each side to "miss," since you don't exactly have to hit a single pin dead center to knock it over, though usually that is the best option. also, i used to only use a plastic ball for corner pins on the right side (i.e. 6 and 10 pins) and use the first ball for everything else, slowing the speed down a little bit if it was a left corner pin (4 or 7). however, i just started throwing my plastic ball at all of the single pin spares, which has worked very well (this past weekend i only missed 1 out of 7, and over the last three weeks only missed about 10) and using a first ball for multi-pin spares (except the right-side baby split [3-10]; i feel i'm a little bit more accurate at that shot with a plastic ball). at any rate, using a straight plastic ball is, i think, more effective for what SilentTuba referred to as "pin bowling."
_________________________
In the bag (16#): Storm: Dimension (red logo) Paradigm X-Factor Ace Ebonite: Maxim
Career: HG:290 HS:722 HAVG:203
08-09(weekly updates) This week: 530 (144, 231, 155) HG: 278 HS: 722 AVG: 189.97 (30 games) Team W-L: 15-9 (3-1 this week)
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#69120 - 10/21/08 08:30 PM
Re: Looking at arrows or not?
[Re: djRIPz]
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Hall of Famer Hopeful
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 851
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
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In my opinion. The average system or bragging about having a 200 plus in one or more houses is a sign that you're a good bowler but it just a number. Always will be and means nothing in my mind.
A great bowler will want to practice/try different angles, balls, targets and try to strike as much but also be great on single spare, multi-spare and so on.
Anyways, its easy for anybody to get a high performance ball and just throw strike without any proper technique or coaching. But, once they bowl on longer, heavier pattern or pba/sport shot. They will quit and blame everything except themselves.
I think that a great bowler is like you said someone who tries different things, whether it be lines, positions, ball speed, release, etc. to be as versatile as possible. Someone who is willing to do whatever is necessary to get 10 in the pit. A great bowler should be someone who throws with a high average on PBA/sport shots and not on house shots in my opinion. And in regards to bowlers with bad techniques and high performance balls, you mean like the terrible palm bowler I played against on Thursday who beat because hurled a 13# Rhino down the lane and edged me out the last two games because he strung a few Brooklyn strikes (hit the pocket maybe 6 times over the course of 3 games). I don't really mind losing to palm bowlers (I know some really good ones) or Brooklyn strikes (everyone gets lucky and if it's there why not use it) or both combined, but this guy was seriously lacking in technique and that is what really burned me up.
_________________________
I may be a noob, but I don't play like one.
Fall Averages Romancing the Stone avg.: 171
Mixed Classics avg.: 179
High game: 279 High series:655
Arsenal 16 lb. Roto-Grip Cell 16 lb. Hammer Black Widow 15 lb. Columbia Scout Reactive Gold&Blue
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