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#66647 - 09/15/08 12:18 PM Fun League Handicap Concern
truchti Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 2
A/S/L: 24/M/Iowa,USA
Hey all, just looking for a bit of advice and possiblities to help a rather small issue on a mixed league I'm on.

Here's the situation:
The mixed league is made up of bowler with varied degrees of abilities. My team itself is a great example of this. I've started out the year with a 200 average, another bowler is in the area with 185, the 3rd has and average at 135, and my final teammate is at 100. The league has several bowler in the 90-130 range. The problem is that it currently seems that one team is going to run away with all of the prize money by being practically unbeatable every week. You may ask why? For two weeks straight there's one bowler that averaging 238, which is great, I'm glad to see someone on the league with such skill, but the league's handicap is based individual as 90% of 210, so he's getting an extra nearly 30 pins, a game, that no one is able to obtain, which is my case for saying they're unbeatable, and I consider that the playing field isn't level, as I consider that the addition of handicap bring the entire league to a level playing field.

Does anyone have some suggestions of actions that could be taken mid-season, if this bowler is able to maintain this super average for the season?

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#66648 - 09/15/08 12:30 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: truchti]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
First, welcome to the site.

238 is hard to maintain for 30+ weeks. Also, it is hard to change handicap once a league has started. Here are a couple of things that a league can do in order to help level the playing field a little expecially when there is a large difference betwen the highest and lowest average.

1) Base your handicap percentage off of the highest average. It would be a manual process every week but, no one would be that left out. For the end of the year handicap prizes, you would still go off of a more conventional handicapping system.

2) Do a percentage of the difference between teams averages for a team handicap. Your team has an average of 620. If another team averages say 700, you could do 90% of the difference for a team handicap. Then, you would get 72 pins a game. Again, you would still go off of a more conventional handicapping system for yearly prizes.

This is something that you should bring up for next year, not this. Making up rules for a single bowler can really cause issues. If you do, then new bowlers who are 210+ are not going to want to join your league or quit shortly after joining.
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#66654 - 09/15/08 01:25 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: General Pounder]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
League meeting has to be called and a unanimous vote to change the handicap to 230 or 240 must be taken. I say unanimous since you have already started the season. If you have not started the season already then only a majority vote of the meeting attendees to happen. But now to change anything, even to go to the differnce between the two teams type of handicapping, would take a 100% vote from the league offiers (which usually consist of the pres., vice pres, treas, sec. and team captain from each team). As you can imagine the team with the 238 guy on it, will probably not vote to adjust the handicap, therefore there will be no 100% vote. Its also very difficult to explain to every sub 150 average bowler why you need to give handicap to the 238 guy by adjusting the cap to 240.

Now on the brighter side. Have you actually looked up this guy on bowl.com to find out if he usually averages over 230? I mean maybe he just had a couple really great weeks right out of the starting gate and will not hold that average. If that's the case then his team will be fighting every week to compensate for his over inflated average, while he comes back down to earth.

Erin


Edited by Atochabsh (09/15/08 01:31 PM)

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#66662 - 09/15/08 02:39 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: Atochabsh]
truchti Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 2
A/S/L: 24/M/Iowa,USA
Thanks for the quick replies, and I understand that it's going to be hard to get it change this year.

I also understand that he probably won't be able to maintain this average for 30+ weeks, but if he does I know they'll be walking away with a lot of the prize money from an unlevel handicap, when they win every week.

I do know that he's improved a lot within a year, I looked back at where he started last year, and he started with a 153, and over the season improved his average to a 193.

I mentioned the situation to the secretary, and he informed me that the bowler bowled in a sport league during the summer. I did for a few weeks as well, and have seen my scores increase a little.

Again, thanks for the replies, and the welcome message, I hope to make good use of the site and provide feedback when I can.

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#66663 - 09/15/08 02:42 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: truchti]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
I would guess that his scores will settle down after a few week then. Averaging almost 720 a night is not easy. Especially if he is fairly new to the sport. He may be over the 210 handicap line, but I am guessing not by 30.


Edited by General Pounder (09/15/08 02:42 PM)
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#66673 - 09/15/08 04:03 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: General Pounder]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I doubt he'll be over the 205 level by the end of the season. While it might not be difficult to get to 200 ave. in today's bowling world, it is hard to stay there.

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#66689 - 09/15/08 06:44 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: Atochabsh]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
You can also go negative pins handicap, so if someone is over the average that you base the handicap off of, they get minus pins. But again as Atochabsh said, that would take a 100% vote from all teams to get done during the season.

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#66692 - 09/15/08 07:35 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: Lefty]
jsigone Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 278
A/S/L: 28/m/San Diego, CA
I don't see what the problem really is, I mean you're a 200 ave bowler, for you to bowl 30 pins over averge isn't that hard. now take it from his view, if you change the handicap because of HIM, so lets say 95% of 230 which is almost borderline stupid.

Now lets say this guy gets re-adjusted to a 230+ ave right with ZERO handicap now. Let say next week he faces a guy/gal with a 105 average. He bangs out his average, and that 105 bowler gets lucky and get a double and 2 or 3 spare. Now your talking about a 160-170 scrore which means 65pins over average. For that guy with the 230 ave to match that, he has to bowl an honor score. i'm sorry life doesn't seem fair to him at that point. At that point, if I was that bowler I'd be looking for a new league where they want to encourage GOOD bowling and not out to change the system.

Your not bowling for money if you are, you need to get in a scratch league and see how the "real" 230 bowlers roll.

1st place in a handicap league is like another 10 bucks a person or 40-50 to the team. Your there to have fun and not make all your money back. I'm assuming your league fees hover around $15 a week, meaning about 7 bucks goes into the prize fund. In my scratch, its $30 a night, 21.50 goes in the prize fund per bowler per night,28 team, 112 bowlers, 32 weeks. Your's talking BIG money like 76,000 prize fund!!! With the same number, of $7 in the prize fund your talking about 25,000ish to be split over 26 teams. Which includes sweeps, alot goes into sweeper night.
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#66695 - 09/15/08 08:18 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: jsigone]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Jsigone,

In a handicap league, the handicap is meant to try level out the playing field some. How is it any where level if one person can shoot 20+ pins under average, his opponent hits his average and with cap still loses? Plus the higher average bowler has a better chance to shoot over his average than a lower average bowler, that is why they keep such a high average.

I see more of an issue with the high average bowler competing in a league that most of the competition is probably below his ability. I've seen a few bowlers average 230+ for a season in multiple houses repeatedly and others that average 220+. Most of those leagues used the difference of team average handicapping system and some of them use the 7 point system with one point per a game scratch, one point per a game for handicap and then total handicap.

As for the original post, I will agree with others that waiting this season out before attempting to make any changes is best. It will be too difficult to get the unanimous vote to change something, plus who knows if the bowler is just on a hot streak right now.
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#66696 - 09/15/08 09:42 PM Re: Fun League Handicap Concern [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I disagree with infer, that the higher level bowler has a better chance at bowling over their average. That's not true, IMO. In order for a 230 average bowler to bowl over their average they first have to have a clean game (no splits) then they have to put at least 5 strikes together. A double here, all spares and a double there and throw another double in there, will get you to 230. To beat that you have to start stringing the strikes. Leave a split and you are talking about sub average. Miss a 10 pin, under average.

However for the 130 average bowler they need to get more then 3 marks (strikes or spares and not necessarily together) and try to keep the first ball no less then 6 count. Give them a few more 9 counts then 6s or 7s and another spare and they are over their avereage. Plus it only takes a few lessons and practice to improve the 130 average bowler.

Its pretty tough to get lessons that will improve the 230 bowler, or the 210 average bowler for that matter.

In this area we have about 1/2 our centers that do NOT have a scratch leagues at all. Of the other centers they have one, and maybe a second with a very low cap (475 trios for example). So its not like there are tons of spaces for the 200 average bowler to bowl in scratch leagues. Our center, where our Pro Shop is, has one scratch league but its a draft (no one is picked that doesn't habitually average over 220). The other center we bowl in is 4 man 850 with votes to allow a couple teams to come in over 850. Both of these leagues are $30 / wk. Not every 200 average bowler is going to fit into a scratch league nor do they all want to pay that kind of money (especially if they get on a weak team). So most mixed handicap leagues have a wide spread of averages from sub 100 to 230. Its common here. The 230 average bowlers have spouses, family and such that they want to bowl with just like the lower average bowlers have their own friends. I've bowled in both scratch and handicap leagues. the atmosphere is totally different. The handicap leagues are much more laid back, you could say "fun" while the scratch leagues are all serious business "cut throat". Why should a higher average bowler be condemned to nothing but cut throat bowling? So I really hate that sentiment "well, you are over 200 you should be in a scratch league not a handicap league". Handicap is there to level the playing field. There is no equally fair system for all levels of bowlers. That's why you have a league meeting at the beginning of the season and discuss and vote on such things.

Erin

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