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#66427 - 09/12/08 01:08 PM All kinds of inconsistant
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
I started bowling about two and half years ago, and took last year off due to money issues(getting married drains the pocketbook). I was extremely excited coming into the league this year.

I just switched from a conventional drilled 14# Ebonite Ice to a fingertip 15# Playmaker, and am constantly amazed at the pin action. 199 avg after two weeks. I'm told I've got too much upper body in my delivery, and we'll see what a coach can do. I've got my first session with a Silver level coach tonight.

Lord knows what just reading tips on the internet without any direction has done to my delivery.
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15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

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#66428 - 09/12/08 01:15 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
General Pounder Online   brickwall
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Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1250
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Welcome to the site.

Sounds like you are muscling the ball. A coach should definately be able to help you with that.
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#66431 - 09/12/08 01:23 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: General Pounder]
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
Oh I know there's a ton of problems, I grip it a little bit, I muscle the ball, I fall off my shot half the time with balance issues. I aim for a target, and tend to throw two boards right of it.

I'm lucky playing on such an easy house shot, I miss outside, the dry brings it right back to the pocket.
_________________________
15# Ebonite Playmaker
15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

Current Average: 177
HGS: 255
HSS: 599

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#66440 - 09/12/08 02:23 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
General Pounder Online   brickwall
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1250
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Cryssen:

That is with most people who play on house shots. You have a board or 2 either way and you hit pocket. Pull it a touch? Holds in the oil. Push it out too far? Dry boards save the day.

One of the first things that a good coach should go over is your fit. A properly fit ball will do wonders.
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#66454 - 09/12/08 05:41 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: General Pounder]
infernocal Online   content
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1891
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Welcome to the site Cryssen and good luck with the coach.
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Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
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#66459 - 09/12/08 06:56 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: infernocal]
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
It was a good session, I've begun to stop throwing my elbow out from muscling the ball. I'd have never thought my ball speed would go up when I stopped muscling. He's got me waiting until my slide foot heel hits the floor before I try to hit it. That was the biggest help to stop two or three of my bad habits. I've got a bit less hook this way, but the pin action's about doubled.

Let's hope I can keep things going once league night starts and I feel pressured to strike
_________________________
15# Ebonite Playmaker
15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

Current Average: 177
HGS: 255
HSS: 599

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#66461 - 09/12/08 07:35 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
infernocal Online   content
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1891
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
When you use muscle you actually slow the ball down. The tightening of the muscle isn't conducive to speed. You are probably getting less hook since you generated more speed. Now its learning to slow the ball speed some to allow the ball to react.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
HS:673

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#66476 - 09/13/08 12:13 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: infernocal]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1275
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
One of the reasons the house I bowl in is tightening the shot is because, as the manager said to me, "there were way too many people with averages well above their abilities", and he was right about that. There must've been, oh, 10 or so people in the scratch league I bowled in who were well above their ability in terms of their average. For them, if they weren't striking, they weren't making spares, either. That just shows you their true colors.

Trying to improve on a house shot is difficult, but it can be done. With an "eagle-eyed coach" you can be critiqued down to a board grain if need be. If you can manage to hit a small area 90% of the time, you can literally kill a house shot. If you can hit a small area 90% of the time, you will find yourself atop many an average board on most conditions regardless. But your body has to be mechanically sound for that to happen. It's not an easy game, but if you're willing to work at it, it has its rewards.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#66491 - 09/13/08 08:28 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Brian Longo]
Mkirchie Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 198
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
One of the reasons the house I bowl in is tightening the shot is because, as the manager said to me, "there were way too many people with averages well above their abilities", and he was right about that.


Wow, I'm impressed. Not many managers around who think that way and will actually say and do something about it.

Mark
_________________________
16# Time Zone (Very heavy oil, spares)
16# Petraglia Pro-Am Ball (Heavy oil, spares)
16# Critical Mass (Heavy-medium oil, spares)
16# Control Zone (Medium oil, spares)
(Hey, I like old stuff!)
HG-300(5)
HS-776
Current Avg-216

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#66493 - 09/13/08 09:52 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Mkirchie]
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
I don't have any problems with spares, in the first two weeks this year, I've left 4 opens, two of which were splits. I'm comfortable with spares, my mechanics are much better, I trust the ball more on spares than when there's 10 left standing.
_________________________
15# Ebonite Playmaker
15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

Current Average: 177
HGS: 255
HSS: 599

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#66518 - 09/13/08 05:55 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
Brian Longo Offline
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Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1275
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Mark, the manager and I have a similar way of thinking. We have mutual respect for each other because I have worked in a bowling center and he knows that I know the mess he goes through and also because we are both good bowlers. He has the fairest shot in town, and probably the most consistent. That is his pride. He is a down-and-in bowler who struggles in carry contests, but it's not about his ego. It's about being as fair as possible across the board. When the top bowler in the area complains that the shot is too easy, you perk up your ears. I told him it was easy as well because there was no way I should've averaged nearly 224 bowling once a week.

Cryssen, it's good to hear your spare game is solid. That is more important than striking despite the fact that it's both more fun to throw strikes and is easier on the joints. wink But if you're "close", then you're probably just struggling in your mental game a bit is all, and not in a negative way. Maybe it's the fact that you don't pick up something as quick, or perhaps you don't believe that you threw the ball well and the lane didn't take the shot you had but you talk yourself out of a quality shot. Whatever it is, it should come with experience and just plain realizing if you made a quality shot or not. Take some time to practice one day and throw ball after ball after ball and read your game. Confidence is tough to build but so easy to lose.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#66522 - 09/13/08 06:12 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Brian Longo]
Amateur Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 419
A/S/L: 19/M/Tacoma, WA
Consistency is definitely one of the hardest aspects of bowling, but that's when "less is more" comes into play. For me, I know taking four steps instead of the five I used to take simplifies a lot of my issues. It allows me to have better timing which in turn improves my balance at the line. The reason I mention this is because five steps is simply adding something I don't need in my game and even complicates things sometimes. Keeping it simple allows for consistency to become easier.

My spare game is a little better than it has been in the past, which I'm happy about. In most cases even if I miss it's only by a few inches, which is kinda good becausause I'm close but also frustrating because of the same reason. I'm struggling with my grip right now and am in the process of getting it worked out, so for now I can blame some of my inconsistencies on that(I'm pretty good at admitting when it's me).
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#66536 - 09/13/08 09:47 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Amateur]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1275
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
I understand how a bad grip can wreak havoc on your game. It's not a poor excuse unless it's habitual. But you said you are working on it so that's good. Among the top things you must have a high comfort level in your game, grip is up there in the top 2 or 3. If the ball doesn't feel right, even if it's the right ball for the conditions, it won't mean squat because you will be fighting the feel.

And FWIW, get your grip checked about every 5 years because your body still changes long after you stop growing, especially when you get to your 30's. Your joints start to stiffen, maybe you broke an arm at 7 years old and it might come back on you, etc.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#66560 - 09/13/08 11:50 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Brian Longo]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Hall of Famer Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 851
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
One of the reasons the house I bowl in is tightening the shot is because, as the manager said to me, "there were way too many people with averages well above their abilities", and he was right about that. There must've been, oh, 10 or so people in the scratch league I bowled in who were well above their ability in terms of their average. For them, if they weren't striking, they weren't making spares, either. That just shows you their true colors.


I completely agree with Ron C.'s assessment of bowlers. In one of his tips he's talks very briefly able what he judges to be a good, average, and below average bowler. He says you should gauge them by how they do on PBA and different sport shots. That average would relect a much truer assessment of their ability instead of their average or easy house shots.
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16 lb. Roto-Grip Cell
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#66561 - 09/13/08 11:55 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
my coach called a house shot an adult bumper league smile

Speaking of coaching, how often should I work with a coach? I would think if I went too often, without time to work on what I learned, it would be pointless parroting on his part.


Edited by Cryssen (09/14/08 12:16 AM)
_________________________
15# Ebonite Playmaker
15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

Current Average: 177
HGS: 255
HSS: 599

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#66568 - 09/14/08 01:04 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1275
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Originally Posted By: TheDemolitionMan
I completely agree with Ron C.'s assessment of bowlers. In one of his tips he's talks very briefly able what he judges to be a good, average, and below average bowler. He says you should gauge them by how they do on PBA and different sport shots. That average would relect a much truer assessment of their ability instead of their average or easy house shots.

Truer words can't be spoken. I've been around this sport long enough to tell the difference between a good bowler and an average bowler, even on a house shot. You might not see the weaknesses right off, but be patient and the wolf will appear from the sheep's clothing. My leadoff bowler last year was like that. His spare game was awful, but when you have 5 boards to shoot at and some hand, a 205+ average doesn't take a lot of effort because strikes come relatively easy. When the funnel went away, well, so did the strikes and in came the splits, ugly leaves, and frustrations.

As for me, well, I can hold my own on a variety of shots. Even shots that aren't conducive to my game or scoring I usually can hang in there at the least and not come out looking like a fool. I need to gauge myself at the present, though, because I've grown leaps and bounds as a person, not just as a bowler, in the past 3 years and my mental game is way, way better than it was "when I thought I was good." I'm far from "awesome" but I have proven to myself that I can fare well just because I can hang in there with my spare game. That why we, as coaches, preach a strong spare game. You can't always strike, but you can make up for a lack of strikes with spares. The person who fills the most frames usually wins. It's pretty much that simple.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#66586 - 09/14/08 09:29 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
infernocal Online   content
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1891
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Originally Posted By: Cryssen
my coach called a house shot an adult bumper league smile

Speaking of coaching, how often should I work with a coach? I would think if I went too often, without time to work on what I learned, it would be pointless parroting on his part.


I've heard many people call the typical house shot adult bumpers. The PBA's Cheetah pattern is also referred to as being like that since it is very close to many house shots.

As for how often you should see your coach, that depends on how often you are practicing. If you go at least three times a week I would say at least 2 weeks in between. If you go less it might be monthly, and more practice could be weekly.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
HS:673

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#66589 - 09/14/08 10:03 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: infernocal]
Mkirchie Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 198
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
His spare game was awful, but when you have 5 boards to shoot at and some hand, a 205+ average doesn't take a lot of effort because strikes come relatively easy. When the funnel went away, well, so did the strikes and in came the splits, ugly leaves, and frustrations.


Bowled with a teammate for the past few years who falls under this category. Struggled in our league last season but bowled good in others, resulting in him averaging around 197 in our league (where the lanes were never that hard anyway), but over 210 in others, and he felt the need to tell everyone how good he bowls in whatever other leagues. I think he needed at least a 3 board area to get higher scores. His spare shooting (especially 10 pins) is hideous. He bowled in the PBA Experience league over the summer. I couldn't bowl in it due to a conflict with what day it was, but I looked at his average on the recap sheets at the lanes. He ended up with an average in the 160's on the PBA patterns. I wasn't too surprised.

Mark
_________________________
16# Time Zone (Very heavy oil, spares)
16# Petraglia Pro-Am Ball (Heavy oil, spares)
16# Critical Mass (Heavy-medium oil, spares)
16# Control Zone (Medium oil, spares)
(Hey, I like old stuff!)
HG-300(5)
HS-776
Current Avg-216

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#66594 - 09/14/08 12:56 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Mkirchie]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1275
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
I think I alluded to this in another thread some time back (and, while talking with the manager, made a similar statement), but there are certain signs of good bowlers; a strong spare game, the ability to adjust and the ability to read the pins to name a few right off the top of my head. Adjusting doesn't just mean "getting to the pocket", but reading how the ball carries the pocket and reacts throughout the lane. The spare game is self-explanatory. And, truly, a strong spare game is a testament to a bowler's mental game. How well can you shake off that ringing 10 and pick up the spare? How well can you fight of struggling to carry and make spares until you can carry? How well can you stay in the hunt with a low-scoring pace and tell yourself you're doing the best that the lanes will allow you to do?

Experience certainly helps, but it's not the be all of judging a good bowler. I know plenty of experienced bowlers who aren't anything better than average and I know relatively inexperienced bowlers who are much better than average. The key is smarts. Using your noodle for other than involuntary muscle actions helps in this game. There are certain hints on a lane you can read and make a wise adjustment. I still make wrong adjustments myself from time to time, but bowling is as much an art as it is a science and if the pros make mistakes, then it's pretty evident amateurs (like me) certainly will make them as well. The key, always, is to minimize your mistakes and capitalize on your opportunities.

Another part of the mental game? Addition by subtraction. That means knowing when to take your head out of the game and let your body do the work. That's the hardest thing for anyone to do, but if you can do that most of the time, you'll see your consistency increase by leaps and bounds.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#66621 - 09/15/08 12:15 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Mkirchie]
Amateur Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 419
A/S/L: 19/M/Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted By: Mkirchie
I think he needed at least a 3 board area to get higher scores. His spare shooting (especially 10 pins) is hideous. He bowled in the PBA Experience league over the summer. I couldn't bowl in it due to a conflict with what day it was, but I looked at his average on the recap sheets at the lanes. He ended up with an average in the 160's on the PBA patterns. I wasn't too surprised.

Mark


Sounds a lot like me lol. The difference is I don't bowl well in one house and complain when I don't do as well in another. I expect it to be that way and I'm aware of the fact that 3 boards of room is my usual need in order to score. I can also admit when I'm given more room and whether or not that's my reason for scoring.

That said, I did a PBAX league in the Summer, had some ups and downs but ended up at 184. I'm somewhat happy about that but the league wasn't sanctioned and the lane surface in combination with the oil machine did not allow them to put down the pattern correctly. So it's quite possible my scores were up or down due to that inconvencience. Now, I'm in a fall PBAX league at a different house that has Pro Anvilane and the newst technology in laying down these oil patterns. We're two weeks into it, the first week was 159 average. I took a different approach at it(Shark pattern) the second week in an attempt to play the shot correctly. I feel I did just that, but was struggling because of a recent grip change. I managed to average 160 to keep my average of 159 in the league. If I can get my grip sorted out soon I feel I can average 170+. I'd like to do as good as or better than in the summer but due to the differences I think 184 is a bit of a long shot from how good I really am.
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#66629 - 09/15/08 08:01 AM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Amateur]
Mkirchie Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 198
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Amateur
The difference is I don't bowl well in one house and complain when I don't do as well in another.


Actually, the difference was even bigger than you think. Our league and the league that he bowled better in were both at the same house. The only difference was the other league was 2nd shift while ours was 1st shift. I've bowled at both times and the shot is not that much different from shift to shift.

Mark
_________________________
16# Time Zone (Very heavy oil, spares)
16# Petraglia Pro-Am Ball (Heavy oil, spares)
16# Critical Mass (Heavy-medium oil, spares)
16# Control Zone (Medium oil, spares)
(Hey, I like old stuff!)
HG-300(5)
HS-776
Current Avg-216

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#66672 - 09/15/08 03:39 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Brian Longo]
agm_ultimatex Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 21/M/Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
One of the reasons the house I bowl in is tightening the shot is because, as the manager said to me, "there were way too many people with averages well above their abilities", and he was right about that. There must've been, oh, 10 or so people in the scratch league I bowled in who were well above their ability in terms of their average. For them, if they weren't striking, they weren't making spares, either. That just shows you their true colors.


I agree. Last night my higher game of 145 was mostly from spare pickups. My average dropped a bit as the lane was do dry, and had trouble of throwing my ball to break off the 5th.

To the OP, while I cant do it very well myself yet, having a relaxed arm swing is greatness.

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#67026 - 09/21/08 06:54 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: agm_ultimatex]
Cryssen Online   content
Junior Master

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 39
A/S/L: 26/M/Louisville, KY, USA
I'm really enjoying the free swing, I'm hitting my targets all of a sudden, and not falling off balance.

It's going to take me a bit to figure out my new lines. I'm getting a lot more speed on the ball, which gives me a different backend reaction than I'm used to. Either that or I need to work on getting more revs on the ball.
_________________________
15# Ebonite Playmaker
15# Ebonite Ice
14# Ebonite Maxim

HGS: 264
HSS: 624

08-09 Season:

Current Average: 177
HGS: 255
HSS: 599

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#67031 - 09/21/08 07:54 PM Re: All kinds of inconsistant [Re: Cryssen]
infernocal Online   content
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1891
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
If you do have a true free armswing, just lower the ball in the stance about 4-6 inches and move up on the approach the same amount and the ball speed will be slower as well as keep you in time. The same thing with needing more speed, raise the ball up in the stance and move back on the approach the same amount.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
HS:673

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