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#64813 - 08/24/08 11:48 PM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: howiegroove]
jsigone Offline
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Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 190
A/S/L: 28/m/San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: howiegroove
this is so confusing!


it's only as confusing as you let it. Get your mecahnics down pat then focus alot on aim. Good aim comes with good mechanics.
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#64823 - 08/25/08 02:25 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: CoachJim]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
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Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 881
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I'm going to assume that I went to the same site that Dennis did because I found the same definition, word for word, for hitting up on the ball. It also says to see stroke. And the definition of stroke is: The act of releasing the ball in a fluid unforced motion (which is what you want to aim for howie). It then goes on to say unlike a cranker. Implying that a cranker forces some kind of power or force on the ball (aka muscling or activating muscles) upon release.

Essentially howie, Dennis and cgeorg were arguing over what to call the grabbing or muscling you do at your release. You simply need to keep your hand relaxed through the whole swing and let the ball come off your hand. You're probably grabbing the ball and it is coming off your hand a little late. If it falls off or feels like it'll fall off have span and finger pitches checked.


Edited by TheDemolitionMan (08/25/08 02:30 AM)
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#64833 - 08/25/08 07:35 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1330
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
If you watch the pros, the guys that get away with hitting up on the ball, like Walter Ray and Michael Haugen, have lower rev rates than those that have mastered releases which do not involve hitting up on the ball. Steve Jaros used to hit up on the ball - look for the telecasts where his elbow ends up bent, with his hand by his ear. After he worked on removing that hit from his release (with Jowdy I believe), he started winning. Watch him now. His hand finishes out in front of him, there is no hit at the bottom, and he gets much more movement and a much better read than he ever did before. Compare something from the 90s to his showing at last year's Masters. Night and day.
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#64835 - 08/25/08 09:29 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
cgeorg, I know what you are trying to say by our explanation of an action. But, the facts are, this Glossary, PBA . com, bowling discussion blog sites, and many others, define the term 'Hitting Up' in a very different manner. Instructional sites as Slowinski and Clifton talk about another term of cupping-uncupping. And, we have had a third term introduced here of hinged-unhinged.

All of the above specifically talk about the hand-wrist action, and only that, at the release. None of them refer to this action as bent elbows or hand to the ear. Or as I suggested, a forced arm movement through the release.

It seems that some people have misused the term Hitting Up in a negative way, and totally contrary from the definition regardless of the source.

There may be another definition yet to be found. I just haven't found it.

You are talking about the forced arm swing after release. And, that is understandable. Hitting up by definition, is something different.

If another definition exists, then there is a disagreement between sources.
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#64838 - 08/25/08 09:51 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1330
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Answer #2: http://www.bowl4fun.com/bob/articles/25.htm
2rd paragraph: http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip28.htm
2nd Paragraph: http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip29.htm

Those sources illustrate the definition I subscribe to.
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#64841 - 08/25/08 10:27 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
howiegroove Offline
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Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 28/M/Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: TheDemolitionMan

Essentially howie, Dennis and cgeorg were arguing over what to call the grabbing or muscling you do at your release. You simply need to keep your hand relaxed through the whole swing and let the ball come off your hand. You're probably grabbing the ball and it is coming off your hand a little late. If it falls off or feels like it'll fall off have span and finger pitches checked.


If this is the case, then how does someone crank the ball. If everyone had the same release, everyone would be a stroker. Thats what I dont understand. Im trying to build power in my game and I know I need to refine my mechanics, but doesnt it take some muscle to crank a ball?
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#64843 - 08/25/08 10:34 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: howiegroove]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
The short answer is yes. As the Glossary above explains, a strong finger release produces a powerful ball, and that is aided by a strong wrist.

Crankers obviously use more wrist and fingers than strokers.
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#64844 - 08/25/08 10:39 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: howiegroove]
cgeorg Offline
Legend

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1330
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
We have told you several times how to add revolutions and power to your shot with proper technique. I am beginning to think you are a bot that can only post "how do I crank?". Here is a list of posts I have made to you answering this question; others have pitched in at various times as well:

http://www.bowlingcommunity.com/b/ubbthreads.php/topics/64476/Re_new_practice_video.html#Post64476
http://www.bowlingcommunity.com/b/ubbthreads.php/topics/64304/Re_How_to_crank.html#Post64304

A quick forum search also reveals:
http://www.bowlingcommunity.com/b/ubbthreads.php/topics/59863/How_does_one_get_revs_on_the_b.html
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#64857 - 08/25/08 11:46 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
howiegroove Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 28/M/Orlando, FL
No, there seemed to be some contradictions, thats all. I have been working on my release and becoming more consistent. And I got a coach to help out with my mechanics. Actually you might be able to answer this for me.

I have gotten quotes for coaches and have one already. But if you have two silver medal coaches (I hope I used the right context) and one charges $65/hr + Lineage and the other is $25/hr but the more expensive one uses the MAP Video thingy, which one is the better value?
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#64858 - 08/25/08 11:48 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: howiegroove]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Bring yourown camera, and try the $25.
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