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#64701 - 08/23/08 06:12 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3232
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
The rest of the stuff I was writing was what Jim had said about the release - keep the good strong wrist position, but don't hit up on it.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Revs come from a free, clean release, that does NOT involve hitting up on the ball. Let it roll off your hand. Extend your hand towards the arrows at release, not upward. Try to scrape your knuckles on the lane past the foul line. These are some keys that will help you to visualize what an un-grabbed release should feel like.

It's also kind of like what people used to call "lift". You do not want to lift the ball. You want to project it out, not up.


Are these terms (hitting up and lift) being misused?

I'll quote from the Glossary above.
Lift -
Refers to the vertical component of a bowler's release.

Hit up on the ball -
1) The act at the release point of coming through the ball with a strong finger release.
2) a ball that is hit hard will tend to be very powerful.
3) used to describe a good release feeling.

I don't see anything wrong with either of these Glossary definitions. And, neither are negative. I think what is being confused is the conscious act of forcing the arm acceleration either through shoulder or arm muscle. This is the unnatural act, and should be avoided. Notice, the term Hit Up does not talk about the arm.

It is common for an instructor to stand past the foul line and hold a broom horizontally, about 3-4 feet off the floor. The training technique requires the bowler to reach for the broom after the release. This trains the bowler to NOT stop the arm when the ball is released, but to follow through and lift.
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#64702 - 08/23/08 06:17 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3232
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Double post, sorry.
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Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
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Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#64706 - 08/23/08 07:36 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1360
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Lift: There should be no vertical component in a properly, non hit up release.

Hitting up: That definition is antiquated, to say the least. Why would coming "through" the ball be called hitting "up"? I would saying coming "up" on the ball would be hitting up, and in fact, hitting denotes much more force than coming.
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#64710 - 08/23/08 07:53 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3232
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Lift does not refer to arm over your head. It is the proper follow through of the release from the floor, up and out. The lift is with the hand.

There are many definitions of Hitting up. Bowl . com simply refers to it as releasing the ball late on the upswing. I remember the explanation as stated in the Glossary. Though I have heard it used to explain the forced arm after/through release.
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Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#64778 - 08/24/08 10:17 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1360
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Lift does not refer to arm over your head. It is the proper follow through of the release from the floor, up and out. The lift is with the hand.

No, the proper follow through of the release is not up, just out. Yes, your hand will eventually come up - it is attached to your shoulder, which is up. But that should not happen while the fingers are still in the ball.
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#64781 - 08/24/08 10:49 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3232
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: cgeorg

No, the proper follow through of the release is not up, just out.


Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Yes, your hand will eventually come up - it is attached to your shoulder, which is up.


Oh, I see the difference??????

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
But that should not happen while the fingers are still in the ball.


Duh. Never hit the ceiling yet.

I believe, if I compare the former methods and terminology to today, the term lift, as it was formerly used, now equates to the term you use as cupping, at the release.

Hitting Up used to mean the hand following through the ball at release with a movement from straight wrist to an inward curl of your hand, done at the time only the fingers are in the ball [cupping?]. Lift was the follow through to complete your armswing without leaving it short. This enabled you to complete the full finger rotation while they are still in the ball.

These terms were developed when people transitioned from conventional grip/full rollers to fingertip grip/3/4 releases.

I am sure you have heard of other terms from the time like handshake. This not only referred to the hand position at release for a full roller, but also to reach your hand out as if you were going to shake hands.

There also was a former instruction method that had the bowler come up with his hand so the thumb touched his nose after release. This way, the bowler did not leave his arm short at or after release.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#64782 - 08/24/08 11:16 AM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
Legend

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1360
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Lift and Hitting up refer to ripping on the fingerholes. It used to be done, because you needed to to get hook, and you could get away with it. You can still get away with it on a house shot, most of the times. You can't on sport shots. The terms lift and hitting up, as used today, have nothing to do with wrist position, where your arm ends up in the follow through, etc. You do not lift the fingerholes in a proper, modern release. You use hand/finger/wrist position to change the way the ball rolls off your hand.
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#64789 - 08/24/08 03:16 PM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: cgeorg]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1940
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
The modern release is to unhinge the wrist at the release point, not to cup as you are releasing the ball. Modern hitting up is the cupping as well as the "triggering" of the finger at release which often adds a small amount of loft to the ball.
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#64795 - 08/24/08 05:04 PM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: infernocal]
howiegroove Offline
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Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 240
A/S/L: 28/M/Orlando, FL
this is so confusing!
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#64799 - 08/24/08 07:31 PM Re: my league outcome, and my game [Re: howiegroove]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2134
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Does anyone know of a good coach in my area?


http://www.kegeltrainingcenter.com/

This is the top training facility in the world, with Joe Slowinski, one of the best coaches in the world, and it's right in your back yard. Am I jealous...Yes.

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