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#63068 - 08/03/08 10:35 PM PBA a circus?
GunsTariq Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 200
A/S/L: Male/Ann Arbor, MI
I'll be honest and say I still read forums on the PBA website. They have appointed a new moderator on the forums and he has calmed the crazy tone it had since I've joined. My question is has anyone else been hearing of some new happenings the tour is bringing for their 50th season, which are:

"4. THE PBA WILL HOLD SOME BUSH LEAGUE TOURNAMENTS THIS YEAR AS FOLLOWS:

1. A ALL PLASTIC BALL TOURNAMENT SPONSORED BY Ebonite. USING Ebonite BOWLING BALLS
2. VARIOUS PATTERNS WILL BE USED NOT JUST THE 5 WE HAVE NOW
3. A TOURNAMENT THAT WILL USE A DIFFERENT PATTERN ON EACH LANE ACROSS THE HOUSE---

I understand there is going to be a new pattern as well.

4. They are adding an additional pattern this year (which will be used twice) and a few "combo" tournaments. One day qualifying will be on one pattern, the next it will be on a different pattern. For the TV finals, the right lane will have one of the patterns used in qualifying and the left lane will have the other. I think it will be a good test of versatility.

There are also plans for an elimination match-play tournament and a house shot tournament. Again, it's all in the spirit of educating the public on how house/league bowling is different from being a PBA tour exempt player."

this was from the forums and it appears to be legit. What do you all think?
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#63076 - 08/04/08 12:10 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: GunsTariq]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Let's face it. Since synthetic lanes came into existence, it has been the objective of ball manufacturers to make balls to increase scores. And, it has been the objective of the USBC to create more difficult conditions. One way was to change oil patterns to a Sport compliant condition. And, the ball manufacturers are winning the fight.

I have said it before, that even if we mere mortals bowled on an of the PBA patterns for any length of time, we would become proficient on them. That is what the pros get, a steady diet of the same pattern for the entire week of the tournament. So, I can easily see that the pros are able to conquer the patterns more easily then we.

Now, if the patterns are going to change, or be juggled in tournaments, it is an admission that the USBC cannot present a condition that really makes bowling a highly competitive Sport. There are infinite combinations of patterns, so why should they try to beat the ball Cos.

Seems that the easiest method to win the fight would be to eliminate all oil, which would immediately obsolete the majority of balls on the market, and send the ball Cos. scurrying.

Let's get back to heavy shellac to level the playing field and not make the lanes play like they want us to strike. Bring back the challenge.
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#63084 - 08/04/08 02:14 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
djRIPz Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 311
A/S/L: 28/M/Richmond Hill, Ontario, C...
Well, I agreed that newer balls are making it easier to strike but the problem is of course is that these balls are market toward the average joe that doesn't care about bowling skills or anything.

Whatever look cool and hooky to the pocket is what they appreciate with no effort or skill involved.

The only thing that any bowling association could do to re-invent the game is just limited the numbers of balls that are legal for sanction league play or force bowling centers to lay out more challenging patterns for any league to sanction but the problem again is.

You won't be finding a bowling association representative at every single house to monitor the action of bowlers using the correct equipment or anything. Plus, most average joe are uneducated about having some fundamental or respect or saving the sport from being a joke by purchasing more high tech balls that are killing the lanes and the game.

Its basically a toss up of old school versus new school. Myself, I can be consider new school to the game but I find the old school of bowling more fun and challenging then what I am being forced to play with even so none of the older balls from the past would work well on today oil condition unless you have a drier patterns that would be suitable for those balls. Also, adding that nobody want to go back to the old days of bowling because those ball didn't hook like today tech balls.

Just a thought.


Edited by djRIPz (08/04/08 02:15 AM)
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#63087 - 08/04/08 02:48 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: djRIPz]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4066
A/S/L: 42/F/California
Quote:
You won't be finding a bowling association representative at every single house to monitor the action of bowlers using the correct equipment or anything.



You can't do this because the local association work force is 100% voluntary. And of those that are willing to volunteer you have a small percentage that are of the higher skill level, even less that have profficiency at the Pro Shop issues. And then you would have to put a quantifier as to the ability of those representatives to do the job properly. For example illegal balls with illegal static weights. How are you going to qualify the person to make that judgement call? And is that person going to be a local representative or not? Will they do this for free? Is this person avialable to go from house to house with their scales and other equipment to make sure all these weights are in compliance. Its just not going to happen. Lets face it, when you are asking for volunteer efforts, you don't measure it by skill level but rather by dedication and enthusiasm and willingness to give time and effort into the local association activities.

Now if we were to have more volunteers that would work with the local associations we could do more things like this. Our current allowable "work force" as local directors is still short. We have a shortage of man power to services the bowlers in our local association. So if you think that you would benefit from more local assoc participation then I urge you and your friends to join the local association on a more dedicated committment as a local director.

In our local association we have less then 20 directors and officers to service 12 centers and 10,000 bowlers. Our local association area is about 50 mile radius. You can do the math that it doesn't amount to much personal service especially to the outlaying centers. Which we have to pull teeth to get participation at and through with their bowlers. Though they no longer wanted to be a stand alone association and begged to be merged with the bigger local association we have no effort from those outlaying centers to help service the bowlers.

Currently we are holding winter Secretary's Workshops. Nearly every weekend day (most people's day off including our volunteer directors) are taken up with attending these workshops. With the idea in mind that we can inform the secretarys of upcoming rule changes and proper protecole that will assist their paperwork and thus service their bowlers. We had two this weekend and one this Monday eve. Then next weekend, two more. .........

If you think that the local association needs to do more, I challenge everyone to step up and become a local director or at the minimum a local volunteer to assist in the day to day efforts that need to be met to make your local association and sanctioning run smoothly. Oh and by the way, USBC now wants all local directors to have a background check for domestic violence and child abuse. So when you volunteer you might also be asked to pay for the background check, which is not optional for local directors. Still wondering why you have limited presence of local association?


Erin



Edited by Atochabsh (08/04/08 02:50 AM)

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#63089 - 08/04/08 05:40 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Atochabsh]
Silent Mike Offline
Pro of the Year Hopeful

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 733
A/S/L: 36/M/Poconos PA
From what I gather they have something ridiculous like 45 mins of warm up to break the lanes down during PBA telecasts. Any shot you lay out can be tuned to your shot. 10 minutes practice if that and go. I'd like to see them shoot on a THS, that would show the difference to the casual bowler where they rank in the bowling food chain. Plastic ball tourney? It beats the skills competition and any new tourneys and $ they can pour into the sport so be it.
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#63101 - 08/04/08 08:59 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: GunsTariq]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2125
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I would like to see the national tournament be all plastic, no exotic drillings either, just label, everyone use the same ball, no team breaking down the pattern, no lugging 8 bowling balls through an airport.

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#63104 - 08/04/08 10:03 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: CoachJim]
desertdog71 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
The cranker in me is salivating at the thought of an all plastic tourney. laugh BRING IT!!!!!!!!!
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#63120 - 08/04/08 03:15 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: desertdog71]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Hall of Famer Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 881
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I think that some of these international patterns or somethings like that should be brought in. Or perhaps start to make bowling like golf where it's more of an international sport. Like traveling around and it tests you on different patterns. You don't play the lanes or patterns like you always do instead you end up playing so that ypu learn to play to get strikes anyway you can.
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#63122 - 08/04/08 03:33 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1266
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Originally Posted By: TheDemolitionMan
I think that some of these international patterns or somethings like that should be brought in. Or perhaps start to make bowling like golf where it's more of an international sport. Like traveling around and it tests you on different patterns. You don't play the lanes or patterns like you always do instead you end up playing so that ypu learn to play to get strikes anyway you can.


Looks like some of the guys from the PBA already started doing that.

Originally Posted By: stormbowling.com
Storm staffer Pete Weber won two matches en route to his first career European Bowling Tour title in the 30th Trofeu Internacional Ciutat de Barcelona at Bowling Pedralbes in Barcelona, Spain, July 22-27.

The PBA Hall of Famer, who had back-to-back 300 games in qualifying topped No. 3 seeded Nicole Sanders, Netherlands, 236-211 in the semifinal and went on to defeat No. 1 seeded Paul Moor 214-211 in the championship match.

Weber qualified second behind fellow PBA star Sean Rash to make the top 48 before eventually making the top 24 cut, Weber in 7th and Sean in 12th. The field then bowled four more games of qualifying to determine the top three for T.V. Weber qualified second behind Moor and ahead of Sanders.

PETE'S JOURNAL

“Well, it's not often that I get to participate on the European Tour, but my experience was a pleasurable one,” Weber said. “One thing I learned is not to under-estimate the European bowlers. They are better bowlers than we seem to give them credit for. I was thoroughly impressed with the way they performed. It was a great honor to add my fourth country to my titles list. I look forward to returning and bowling more tournaments in Europe.”

"Whether it was San Marino or Barcelona, I used three different Dimensions, said Weber. "First, in San Marino, I used two different ones. The first day when I arrived in San Marino, I bowled with a pin up, extra hole 6" from middle of span, which is my favorite layout, and bowled 1575 for 6 games of qualifying."

"I noticed during the qualifying rounds the lanes becoming more tighter. I then asked Peter Somoff to drill a new Dimension with the pin in the middle of span and the extra hole down 1/4" from axis point. First squad of match play I shot 258 and 279. Next match I barely made it through by 5 pins. Then I lost in the round of four to Thomas Gross, who was also using a Dimension or Rapid Fire."

"All in all, the Dimension is one of the best balls I have ever used. It is very easy to see the ball roll/react down the lane with the layouts I used giving me the reactions I want to see. I saw a lot of the foreigners using the Dimension or some sort of Storm equipment."

"Now onto Barcelona. My first squad I didn't bowl so well. I used a pin up Dimension. Each pair was reacting differently. I couldn't quite read the ball going down the lane. Second squad, I used pin down, just under my fingers, with extra hole 6" from middle of span. First game 164. Then I decided to change hand positions because I knew there was a way to get this ball to react. All of sudden I'm reading the ball down lane. After 4 games I was 200 over with back-to-back 300s. After the six game block I was 220 over."

"On Sunday, more qualifying games. First 4 games, 855, qualified 7th. The next four games I had 935, qualified 2nd for the t.v. show. Only two practices balls on t.v. then the games starts. I moved right to play between the first and second arrows and threw the Dimension as hard as I could keeping the ball in play. It just proves that you can make the Dimension hit going straight or hooking the lane. And then on to a VICTORY!"

"I had a wonderful experience with our Staff and Mr. and Mrs. Chrisman and everyone involved with the European Bowlers Tour. It was a honor and a pleasure to represent Storm."

Weber earned 12.000 Euro or approximately $18,850 for first place and moved up into a 16th place tie in the 2008 European Bowling Tour (EBT) rankings.
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#63135 - 08/04/08 05:38 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: General Pounder]
Justinmill14 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 313
A/S/L: 15/male/Tennessee
speaking of the skills challenge, the trick shots they usually do arent that good, atleast the ones i have saw, i mean i know i cant do them but still i wish they could come up with better ones, but when u say an all plastic ball tournament ur saying that during that tourn. they can only use plastic balls right?
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Personal Bests----High series-654 High Game-266

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#63156 - 08/04/08 06:23 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Justinmill14]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1921
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Correct, only plastic balls. Thats what bowling was like from around the 1960s maybe earlier into the 1980s when urethane came out. Before that it was rubber and previous to that was wood.
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#63160 - 08/04/08 08:37 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: infernocal]
NewYorkDave Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 174
A/S/L: M/NY
I think a plastic-only tourney is a GREAT idea. I'd like to see more and more of that kind of stuff. Plastic on a flat pattern with 4 lb. pins would be really killer!

I don't think the scoring pace problem is going to be resolved until the sanctioning bodies have the nerve to stand up to the ball companies. They can keep making the patterns tougher, but the ball mfrs. will just come up with more pumped-up equipment to beat them.

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#63161 - 08/04/08 09:09 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
180fury Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 298
A/S/L: 30/m/hatton,al
all spare ball plastic ball would be the greatest. i'm not a cranker but i can throw my spare ball about 20 mph. thats so much fun when you hit them at that speed. i dont throw it that fast in league but just warming up i do. laugh fun fun fun. i want to do that here but i got to talk to her boss first and see if he's up for it laugh
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#63177 - 08/04/08 10:07 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: 180fury]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1921
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Its not all about the balls, its about the lane conditions as well. The centers control that and in order to bring in bowlers, most will put down an easier shot. With the USBC now getting into bed with the Bowlering Proprierters Association of America, I doubt we will see tough conditions across the country.
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2008-2009 Winter Season
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#63182 - 08/04/08 10:31 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: infernocal]
Justinmill14 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 313
A/S/L: 15/male/Tennessee
if they do it, do u guys think they will throw it straight, or atleast attempt to hook it, i mean i can usually make my plastic ball hook atleast a little bit.
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Personal Bests----High series-654 High Game-266

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#63221 - 08/05/08 08:26 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Justinmill14]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1921
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Definately hook, how much will depend on the pattern used. Maybe they will us the old time 24 foot pattern from the '80s, or the Cheetah, plenty of friction there. I think its a common misconception that plastic can't hook. It can and will with the right release and look at the rev rates of some of the Pros.
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HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
HS:673

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#63230 - 08/05/08 09:14 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: infernocal]
NewYorkDave Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 174
A/S/L: M/NY
Word is that the plastic ball tourney will be on Cheetah.

I agree that walled patterns are a big part of the scoring problem, but the ball technology must be addressed as well, IMHO. Simply making the patterns tougher is not enough because, as I said earlier, the ball companies will just produce more potent bowling balls to beat them.

Anyone who doubts that plastic can hook only need watch some pre-1981 matches on Youtube. Hook existed before urethane, resin, etc., except it came more from the player's technique than from the ball itself--and the lower volumes of oil on the lanes didn't hurt, either!

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#63234 - 08/05/08 09:40 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
Justinmill14 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 313
A/S/L: 15/male/Tennessee
i definately think it will be interesting to watch!
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Personal Bests----High series-654 High Game-266

Youth Sat. League---- Average-165(not good either)
High Game-211

Highschool Team----- Average-178.6
High game-233
High Series-618

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#63235 - 08/05/08 09:40 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2125
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
There is a misconception about there being low volumes of oil, there were low volumes of oil compared to now, but if you were to have the ball skid as much as it did back then, then they would still need about 10x the amount of oil that they use these days.

I bowled in several pro events back then and I could hook the ball fairly well and the ball would skid all the way through the pins I haven't seen that amount of oil since I got back into bowling back in 92. If I use my plastic ball on a house pattern, I can still hook my white dot fairly well as long as I keep it out in the dry. IF they put a flatter pattern down like the USBC National pattern, the plastic ball would skid through the pin deck.

I have said this before and I will say it again, house patterns are a form of cheating, just because it is not you that is putting the shot down, doesn't mean that it isn't still cheating. The lanes are artificially helping your ball get to the pocket on errant shots that otherwise would be in the gutter or picking off the corner.

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#63240 - 08/05/08 10:07 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1266
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Originally Posted By: NewYorkDave
I think a plastic-only tourney is a GREAT idea. I'd like to see more and more of that kind of stuff. Plastic on a flat pattern with 4 lb. pins would be really killer!


At the Petersen Classic, they have a side tourny that is called the Lumberjack. The pins I think are between 4 and 5 pounds. And it is 9 pin no-tap (I think). 4 games. Last time I was there, a buddy of mine shot 935 for 4 and was in the top 5. Getting the ball to the pocket is only part of the battle. You need to have enough force to get the pins down.
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#63241 - 08/05/08 10:08 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: CoachJim]
NewYorkDave Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 174
A/S/L: M/NY
I totally agree about the typical house pattern. It's a form of "bumper bowling", really. I usually aim at 10 and my plastic ball will hook some as long as I get the release right. At least when using plastic, it still feels like somewhat of a challenge even with the walled house shot. If I miss my target by a couple of boards then I usually don't get a strike

I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pros sanded up their plastic bowling balls a bit back in the day. It's not illegal now and it probably wasn't back then. Of course, we all know about the Yellow Dot "bleeder", which met the PBA hardness spec but was still very grippy compared to other bowling balls at the time. That's probably why it was the ball of choice for a few years running.

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#63243 - 08/05/08 10:11 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2125
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
We used to sand our balls for heavy oiled lanes back then, but the lanes had to be very oily. you could also just sand the Track either with it or across it.

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#63246 - 08/05/08 10:16 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: CoachJim]
NewYorkDave Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 174
A/S/L: M/NY
I was bowling in the late '70s but as a youth leaguer, my only knowledge of "surface conditioning" was tossing the ball in the Lustre King every now and then wink

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#63247 - 08/05/08 10:18 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2125
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Lusterking is still around, but it ruins reactive resin balls by filling the pores with wax.

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#63248 - 08/05/08 10:19 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
The PBA is a circus, and the USBC has been run by clowns
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#63253 - 08/05/08 10:33 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
NewYorkDave Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 174
A/S/L: M/NY
The LK sure did a good job on plastic, though. My scratched-up bowling ball would come out looking like new.

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#63280 - 08/05/08 01:12 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1921
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
There was also the original "soaker" ball, as in soak the ball in acetone to soften the surface to get better grip. Thats why acetone is now illegal to use on bowling balls.

As for the whole technology thing, bowling balls are what they are and thats not going to change. If the USBC really tried to make stricter rules for the balls and the manufacturers declined to follow them, who is going to win? The manufacturers, because the bowlers will want to be able to use the next big hooking ball. Lane conditions aren't going to get tougher either, the USBC is getting into bed with the BPAA who is going to defend the right to have the easy house china and again will win if USBC tries to make the rules stricter. There would be less sanctioned bowlers and the USBC will eventually fold.

So the conditions in your everyday leagues are going to stay the same. At the Pro Level these guys want a challenge, they want to bowl against and beat the best of them on tough conditions so implementing some of those ideas would probably be possible there.
_________________________
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Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
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#63281 - 08/05/08 01:26 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: infernocal]
cgeorg Offline
Legend

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1330
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
The PBA format for 08'09, from the PBA:

http://www.pba.com/news/feature.asp?ID=841

It's so juicy, you need to read it all. Go read it. I'll wait.

...

...

...

Ok, back?

Some things that excite me:

  • New pattern! (Earl Anthony)
  • Multiple patterns for some tournaments. Shark + Cheetah in the same tournament, good stuff. Similar to what they have done at the Teen Masters.
  • Plastic ball tournament, provided by the PBA, on the Cheetah
  • League shot tourney
  • Marathon championship on all 6 patterns (animals + Earl), top seed chooses the pattern for TV.


The 3 swings seem interesting as well... I am very excited to sit my [censored] on the couch and watch some TV this fall/winter/spring!
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#63282 - 08/05/08 01:48 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: cgeorg]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1266
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
That was a lot of info. Thanks CG.

I am interested to see the Earl and the Dick Weber patterns as well as watching the bowlers bowl on different patterns on each lane. One of the hardest things for a lot of bowlers is to remember that each lane may play different. With throwing 2 completely different patterns out there, it will be stressed a lot more. Watching them bowl on a house pattern will be fun too. I hope to be seeing a 300 or 2. I am wondering how tame of equipment they will be using.

For bowling geeks like us, I think that this is pretty cool. For the Pros, a chance to show what they are made of. For the casual fan, eh. They could care less.
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#63283 - 08/05/08 02:08 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: NewYorkDave]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Hall of Famer Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 881
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I'm a newer bowler but I would have to agree with you Dave. The house shots are kind of like bumper bowling. I'm speaking simply from comparision between the PBA shot league (where you get punished for bad shots) that I'm in and normal house shot league that I'm in. When I screw up on a house shot I'm like, "D**n it!" But then magically, I get a strike. I couldn't have made anymore mistakes, and I get rewarded with a strike. I'm a little upset but I let it go and try to fix it on the next shot and chalk it up to I now have some useful information. However this kind play with easy house patterns only perpetuates the "I'd rather be lucky than good" mindset. Really? I'd rather be a skillful bowler who occasionally gets lucky. Also, these easier shots eliminate a lot of technical aspects of bowling from the bowlers possible arsenal. Had I not gone to check out Ron C.'s articles, I probably still wouldn't know about a lot of the things can be done to change your game and be more versatile.

As for the tougher shots and the ability of the bowling ball companies to produce new and innovative technology. The bowling ball companies are winning. No matter how tough a pattern is, there is a ball that is made to conquer it. Something else needs to be done.

Something like putting down tougher shots during leagues (it may not help much in the broad persective but it would make me happy). One thing that I would like to see here in San Diego is more volumes of oil. Very rarely will the ball come back with oil on the Track. I guess that's why I have trouble playing inside and going across the lane becaue I like to play the drier areas of the lane and I'm used to it. I'm not really used to playing in oil.


Edited by TheDemolitionMan (08/05/08 02:10 PM)
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#63293 - 08/05/08 07:59 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
djRIPz Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 311
A/S/L: 28/M/Richmond Hill, Ontario, C...
If you ask me.. you will see more Pros using urethane and mid-price balls on the house shot pattern then high end balls unless they are drill with a weak layout. Should be interesting to see with one thing for sure that I can count on is seeing a lot of solid 10 for righties and 7 for lefties. I can visualize a lot of high games but I am sure we will all get a good laugh with some unusual split.
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#63295 - 08/05/08 09:03 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: djRIPz]
desertdog71 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
I just read the full article on these changes this year and I like them. I can't wait to watch.

My only disappointment is that the TQR for the Plastic Ball Championship is bowled with regular equipment. frown
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#63299 - 08/05/08 10:04 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: desertdog71]
infernocal Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
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A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Yeah thats not cool, even the TQR should be plastic.
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#66115 - 09/09/08 09:39 PM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: GunsTariq]
BIGHMW Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 56
A/S/L: 42/M/Port Townsend, WA
This season is going to be a groundbreaker for these reasons:

1) It will challenge the players to bowl on an even bigger variety of different oil patterns, including up to two different patterns used simultaneously during match play and the TV show.

2) I will say that the all-plastic ball event is very unique, especially in this day and age of reactive resin and particle bowling balls, players will be catapulted 30-35 years back in time, to the days I grew up watching on ABC telecasts during the 70's, when plastic was exclusively used so there will be a bigger premium on spare-making, because the pin carry will cause lower scores mostly due to the pins being heavier now than back then (3 lb., 6oz today, compared to the old standard before 1985 (3 lb., 2 oz.). Expect lower scores due to those factors, more of a grind out, and more appealing to the hardcore PBA fan who can relate more to low-scoring telecasts than most casual fans who expect 220-240 scores from the best players in the world every week.

3) But, where are the sponsored tournaments, how about the official PBA sponsors being the namesakes of some of the events? This sounds too generic to me to not have any sponsored events that will definitely appeal to more fans tuning in rather than what they are currently thinking of, how about the H R Block TOC, the Denny's U.S. Open, or perhaps the Etonic Championship?

Without sponsor-named events, the ratings for this season will certainly be low.

4) I am glad they finally brought the seniors back to TV for the first time in ages, I remember watching the Senior PBA Tour back in the late 80's-early 90's, watching players like Gene Stus, John Handegard, and other great PBA stats and Legends like the greatest ever to grace the lanes himself, the late great Dick Weber, and also some of the great touring champions I used to watch on ABC during the 80-90s show that they still have it.

Kudos to the PBA for bringing the greats of old back to the tube, and for making the PBA still worth watching when everyone else would rather tune in to the NFL or NASCAR (aired on the same time slot as the PBA). Now if they can only get sponsors to name the events after in order to draw more fans to the sets.
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#66137 - 09/10/08 02:12 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: infernocal]
Jock Online   content
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 268
A/S/L: 51/M/France, right handed
Originally Posted By: infernocal
Yeah thats not cool, even the TQR should be plastic.


The exempt players (ie already qualified for the plastic ball tourney) didn't get there with plastic, so why should the others have to get there with plastic?
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#66151 - 09/10/08 08:52 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Jock]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Actually, I think this is a sham. The balls and the lanes are so juiced, bowling as a sport has to result to gimmicks. It used to be accuracy and consistency that got you to the top. Now, with newer equipment, many, including myself, have a 4 board width to get a strike, and the entry angle can be from 2-6 degrees. Plastic may be the only way to really show any skill in today's game. Remove the oil and see what that brings.

Even Baseball did a study and found that Aluminum bats, in the hands of a professional, had a sweetspot twice as large as a wooden bat. And, the impact of a ball hit by an aluminum bat hits with 4 tons of force. 1 1/2 time that of wood. They would produce monstrous homer totals, hits and every record would have to have an asterisk. For those reasons, you will never see newer technology in bats in Baseball.
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#66153 - 09/10/08 09:06 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
Legend

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1330
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Dennis, do you have 4 boards on a sport shot? On the US Open shot?

If you watch the pros, they are putting the ball on the same board with the same release every time. Sometimes they miss half a board and pay dearly. Get half a mile/hour slow, big split. I'm sorry - the game may be easier for house hacks, but the PBA players are not getting a break.
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#66155 - 09/10/08 09:28 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: cgeorg]
BIGHMW Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 56
A/S/L: 42/M/Port Townsend, WA
That is why normally a 220 average on a house shot equals about a 170 average in PBA terms, we should expect tougher conditions/oil patterns for the guys we watch on TV every Sunday, imagine Tommy Jones on TV if the PBA ran a house shot on their tournaments, it just doesn't make sense, and would draw less fans/viewers to the sets.

That's why they are the best players in the world, and because of it, we have to make the conditions/oil patterns tougher for these guys, in the same way the PGA pros get the tougher courses than what the club players play on. Otherwise, who would tune in? We already suffer a severe shortage of viewership due mostly to ESPN and the PBA (deliberately) putting the telecasts opposite the NFL and NASCAR every Sunday, and it would literally kill our sport as a televised one altogether if they weren't tougher.
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#66156 - 09/10/08 10:09 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: BIGHMW]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
On some Sport shots, yes, I have 4 boards at the pocket, but generally, not at my target. But, my point is, 90% of bowlers never bowl on Sport or PBA shots. All they know is the House shot. And, another large % don't really know the difference between them. It.s only the few who participate on them that can really see the difference. Otherwise, the vast majority of bowlers are content with the high 200 averages, and don't want the challenge. They don't bowl tournaments, and don't care.

The sham is that we have made it too easy to score with ball technology and lane oiling, that we have to make the game harder. We created limits of bowling balls. We developed more difficult oil patterns. And, now we are reverting to Plastic ball tournaments which don't necessarily match those lane conditions.

I don't see the attraction to plastic balls on PBA shots to the average bowler. This is something they will never come up against, nor do they want to.

I couldn't tell you how many league bowlers there are in my main house. Maybe 800 plus. And, the PBA Summer league was cancelled for lack of interest, with only 10 signing up. That is a dismal %. The rest have NO interest.
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#66165 - 09/10/08 10:42 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Mkirchie Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 201
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
And, the PBA Summer league was cancelled for lack of interest, with only 10 signing up. That is a dismal %. The rest have NO interest.

Pretty much exactly the same at my house, except the league went on with 5 teams of 2 bowlers. This was the first time they had the PBA league. I would have done it, but I needed it to be on a different night than when they had it.

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
The sham is that we have made it too easy to score with ball technology and lane oiling, that we have to make the game harder. We created limits of bowling balls. We developed more difficult oil patterns. And, now we are reverting to Plastic ball tournaments which don't necessarily match those lane conditions.


I can deal with the ball and oiling technology changing. I feel that the measures taken to deal with it are wrong. All of the changes have resulted in the pins being overpowered, yet changes to pins to deal with the changes have been mild at best. I still believe that a considerable change in the mass of the pins and distribution of the mass in the pins are necessary to reduce carry and close up the pocket.

Mark
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#66169 - 09/10/08 10:58 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Chubbs Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 220
A/S/L: 29/M/Niceville, FL
Wow Dennis, you must have that 6 degree entry angle down to a science to have that much area at the pocket. I kid, I joke wink...

I know we've discussed this in other threads before, but there's got to be a way the USBC can mandate tougher conditions for all sanctioned leagues. In the short term, it would probably hurt participation because alot of "area bowlers" would quit when the air got let out of their inflated averages. Too bad, either get better or get run over! It's indicative of what's wrong with our country, but that's another rant and I'm not going there brickwall.

However, something has to be done. Imagine the outcry from the USGA if municipal golf courses started contouring their greens like salad bowls with the pin cut in the middle so the ball always feeds toward the hole. That's the equilvalent of what's been allowed to happen in bowling, and the USBC can now take steps to fix it or continue to allow the game to degenerate into the loud music/light show Friday night farce it's becoming.
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#66176 - 09/10/08 11:20 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Chubbs]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Yeah Chubbs, on a good night, my teammates marvel that my high hits kick out the 4, and my light hits slash at the 7. It's the ball, I tell you.
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#66177 - 09/10/08 11:24 AM Re: PBA a circus? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4066
A/S/L: 42/F/California
Quote:
Imagine the outcry from the USGA if municipal golf courses started contouring their greens like salad bowls with the pin cut in the mid