I have been told by the Pro Shop operator that it is the fastest way to become a better bowler. Now I'm not a very good bowler to begin with. I am all over the place with my scores. I can have games on one night (THS) of 161, 175, 118 and then bowl the next day with scores of 207, 218, 188 and then still come back the next day bowl 130, 140, 121.

So as you can see I'm not very consistent. I'm not sure why I'm not very consistent, but I'm not.

Anyhow, I guess what I'm asking is would I be wasting my money? Or do you think it could actually help me?

I should add that I do actually do better when there is oil involved. When the lanes are a medium oil or drier I tend to over hook the lane. My speed is medium and I'm more of a stroker with low to medium revs. I do bowl with a fingertip drill with a pin-in ball.

Brian, it's not only the amount of oil but the length and spread of oil too. Keep in mind that if you have a deficiency in your game, release, delivery, speed, accuracy, they will show up twofold.

Atochabsh and I agree that the best way to bowl in a PBAX is where they provide training on the site while you bowl. Watchful eyes are great to identify potential problems and recommend corrections, that the bowler doesn't realize.

Even if you don't fix any problems, you will amass a list of them that you could work on for the future. So, yes, this may help you. But, go into it wanting to learn and improve.

I just recently finished up my pba experience league. I honestly think that it would be a great idea to join one of these types of league. I fluctuate around 200 avg on my THS at my local house. The pba leagues showed me how inaccurate I actually am. I really need to work on accuracy to become a more consistent bowler. The PBA patterns chewed me up. Enough said. It's definitely worth the experience tho.

I'm with Dennis on this, the only way a PBAX League helps is if you are getting coaching with it. The fastest way to get better is a good coach not bowling on difficult patterns. The difficult patterns will show how inaccurate your are, but without a trained pair of eyes to watch, point out what is causing it and help you fix it, how much will the patterns really help?

Also with PBAX League, go in with an open mind, the pattern might not play at all like the information fliers say they will play. Most centers don't have the same machine and do the same procedure needed to let the pattern play. So don't be surprised if it plays a lot like the house pattern.

I'm nearing the end of my PBAX league and we do not have anyone helping us out or watching over us. And there's not a bowler good enough to tell you how you should be playing the lane or what you're doing wrong physically. I really wish there was someone certified to help us with our problems when they show up, but it's a league of only 10 people so it's hardly worth it to have someone like that.

Amateur, the 2 Houses with successful PBAX leagues, have them run by pros. The pros job is to help and train. You can get immediate help or stay after for a private session.

That is why all of the others failed for lack of interest. These 2 have tripled in bowlers. In fact, there have even been honor scores recorded. 300 on a PBA Pattern. Wow.

Is that just your area or are you saying there should be two houses in any area that have PBAX leagues run by a pro or certified coach?

A PBA Exp league will only help you if you know what you are doing wrong when you throw a bad ball and what you did right when you throw a good ball. Without the existing knowledge of how to move on the lanes, how to repeat shots, know when and when you are not hitting your mark and breakpoint a PBA Exp league can be nothing but frustration.

Just being in the league will not make you a better bowler. You have to have knowledge or ongoing tutoring to guide you in how to recognize mistakes and inconsistencies. If you are as you say, "all over the place" then a PBA Exp league will only exploit that more. Personally I don't think anyone under 190 should be in a competative (bowling for points with score) PBA Exp league either handicapped or scratch.

You should also know that you will have to pay an additional $15 a year to do this on top of your regular USBC sanctioning.

Erin

[qutoe]I have been told by the Pro Shop operator that it is the fastest way to become a better bowler. [/quote]

I strongly disagree with this. IMO, the fastest way to become a better bowler is to engage in a bi weekly private coach, practise 4+ days a week and do that for about 4 months (maybe even two months). You'll get better. That is providing that the coach you engage has a knowledge of lane transition, good sense of ball choice, and spare shooting formulas.

Erin

Funny thing is that I am already doing this.. I have a coach on a bi-weekly basis and I practice about 16 games a week.

As far as knowing what I am doing wrong and knowing when I'm hitting my mark... I know where I went wrong as soon as I release the ball... I also know as soon if I release the ball if it's going to be a strike.

The problem I have is hitting my mark with every ball. If I take the time and slow down, remember to bend my knees at the start of my approach it keeps me from slouching and my ball is almost perfect every time... I just have trouble remembering to do that.

The repetition has not set in stone yet. There are a surprisingly great amount of motions that together result in a well executed bowling ball.

The problem with the PBA Exp leagues is that every little inconsistency (even ones you have not yet recognized) will be exploited. In fact many shots will probably be a combination of errors. Most times it won't be just one thing. And when trying to determine what you did well and didn't do well each and every shot takes a very sound mental game as well as pysical game. A PBA Exp league will show you when you make the smallest inconsistency. It will not tell you what that is. Consequently if you strike, you may have done so based on luck and a combination of motions that may not be your normal Execution. Yet because you are in a PBA Exp league you will use that strike as a sign that you did everything from approach to delivery as 100% right. Not necessarily so. Sometimes two wrongs make a right. Just happens. What a lot of beginner bowlers find is that the PBA Exp league confuses them, makes them doubt every movement that goes into delivering the ball. Sucks the confidence out of you. And when that happens you doubt everything. This game is a great sport of repetition, but it also is tough on the old noggin. Sport and PBA leagues are great at creating the "frog guts" syndrome. What do you get when you dissect a frog? Frog guts, no more no less. A plate of guts that are incredibly hard to put back together.

Erin

Amateur, 2 years ago, we had 12 PBAX Leagues across the 13 houses in our Association. This year, there were only 2. Lack of interest was cited as the reason most cancelled.

The 2 that continue are run by touring pros, who bowl out of those houses, and actually help the bowlers right on the spot. They also give lessons on the patterns right afterwards. Success is proven by the increased number of bowlers in each house, and the honor scores recorded in each.

I talked to my coach about this very thing yesterday, and he has brought up a lot of the same points that you guys did. Funny how that works . Anyway, he also said that because of the way I bowl I might surprise myself and do pretty well. Because, as I said earlier I'm not a fan of dry lanes, So I tend to play where the oil is at (at our houses that is usually up the center) When I can't play my normal line, because of the lanes drying out. I tend to move closer to the center and bring my hand more up the back of the ball and play a lot straighter shot with only about 3 or 4 boards of movement on the ball.

I do think that my biggest problem as you said will be my inconsistencies.

I am not naive, I don't think I'm going to go into this and have that light switch turn on and just start bowling strikes. But I was really hoping to go out and use the experience to try and learn about how to play a better game. And possible get better at the same time.

The only thing that I'm really worried about is; there just is not anyway to practice these sport shots at all. My only chance to play on them will be on league night and I think that stinks.

Edit for spelling (it's early)

Brian, that is the major problem with PBA patterns. The remaining houses that have this type of league dedicate another night and put down the pattern that will be used on the next league night. A House near me puts down the PBA shot, but only on the first 6 lanes on an alternate night for practice. This is also done at another house I know of. At least, that gives you another opportunity.

Ask the center where you will bowl if they will do that.

My experience tells me that the straighter shot bowler has less negative impact in this condition than the big bending type of bowler. It is not uncommon to see a 20+ pin average drop for them.

If you play up the middle you will not see much difference. This is a common result for people that "play up the middle". There is little to no pocket entry angle, low scoring ball path. The same will be had on a sport condition. You might get a bit more backend due to the tendancy for sport and PBA conditions to have stronger backends then a house shot. But it will still not teach you how to deal with the variations of oil.....if you play up the middle. You are not really playing the shot, you are just playing the middle. Just like you do on any other shot in any other house. So you will probably not see the common 20 pin drop that higher average bowlers experience. But I still do not think it will make you a better bowler.


Most house shots do not have a shot in the middle. The shot is more around the 10 board or maybe the 5 to 8 board. But not the middle (20 board).

What is the format of this league? Ask your coach if he would put you on his team for this PBA Exp. league. Because you will learn more that way. Undoubtedly you will learn more with a tutor on the lanes at the same time. which I've always been a strong proponent of. I'd not bowl unless it was on his team. Keep in mind that he's kind of advocating this, so he should have room on his team for you. He should see you has a huge benefit if he's suggesting this.

Erin

It's a draft league.. They do a new draft every 9 weeks. 4 person teams with 4 different average groups... Low average being lead off man with high average being team captain. You lead off man is competing against all of the other lead off men in the league as well as the teams competing against each other. So that the teams are supposed to be a little more even. If I remember correctly it is as follows:

under 150
151-175
176-200
201+

Since I don't have an established average with the USBC I'm guessing it will go off of my first night.. Not sure how that will work since it is a draft league.

Without an established average, and assuming this is a sanctioned league, you should be given a blind score to start, and your average will usually be based on your first 9 games. A sanctioned average will be set after 21 games.

I will say this, you have been given the opportunity in advance here to know what to look for. Your coach seems favorable to this move, and you also seem positive in your mental commitment. So, you have what you need to advance.

Good luck.

There has been an ongoing debate about whether sport leagues help or hurt you, and I'm on the side that they will help you as long as you go in with the right mental attitude. Where problems arise is when people get good at bowling on house conditions, have no idea that they're no where near accurate and then can't hit the headpin on a sport condition. If a person had always bowled on a sport condition, they would have been forced to develop the good habits that promote accuracy. Because most people bowl on house shots that make accuracy pretty unimportant, they never had to work on hitting the same board shot after shot.

Taking a guess, I think the thing that you'll notice is that what you think is missing your mark now is actually missing by a lot. If you have 2 boards room at the arrows, it will be a lot. You'll also have to release the ball consistently to get a consistent reaction.

Again, if someone grew up on conditions like this (like they did 30+ years ago), no one would think twice about it. The conditions would dictate that you work on your accuracy to score. House conditions today don't dictate that so we as bowlers don't work on it. We naturally gravitate to do other things that will raise our scores.

Sport conditions force bowlers to prioritize accuracy. For some bowlers, this is to much of a change from what they're used.

Brian, set your main goal. Are you going to be a house bowler , couple of times a week. Or, are you going to bowl in tournaments and more difficult conditions?

House bowling is more forgiving and many people, probably the vast majority, are very satisfied with that as their level. Others, look for the additional challenge that lane conditions can provide.

In my few years of PBA experience, I find a strange phenomena taking place. Higher average bowlers have a negative impact when first faced with this. It is now an accepted fact that your average will drop 15-20 pins. And, that is for reason.

However, as I have seen, there is lesser impact on those who average, lets say, under 175. My assessment of this is a first ball syndrome. It is much more difficult to strike on PBA conditions, and that's what the higher average bowlers need to maintain their average. Other bowlers don't rely on strikes, but can make their share of spares. PBA conditions won't hurt that bowler as much.

If your revs are lower than 300, your speed is controlled, you work with a turn of 6 boards or less, and can roll straight at spares, a PBA pattern won't affect you as much.

What it does is let you develop and improve under the toughest conditions as others are developing on a House shot. Bottom line, you will ultimately have more success. It may take a short while longer, but it will happen, especially with training.

I'm sorry to say but if you're hitting 140-150s alot then your spare game is off no matter how well you can get into the pocket. You're leaving 3-5 opens a game. PBA pattern will show that even more if you have any type of flare/hook on your spare ball. Sure you can play up the middle but you're not challenging the pattern nor working the proper angles for flush pocket hits. The middle is very inconsistant from shot to shot which is why you're leaving different spares that you're sruggling with.

Most leagues start up in less then a month, I'd take that time and practice as much as you possibly can. Try playing different lines to the pocket with the different balls you have including your plastic for last resort. This will help you when they change the pattern and oil breaking in. See how you ball react when you play outside lines and deeper in the corner if you ahve the revs to bring it back.

If you really want to play the PBA, get your spare game in form. Get your body mechanics in check. All shots need to be very consistant or [censored] close. Watch your ball from the time it hits the lane to when it hits the padding in the back.

My spare shooting has gotten a lot better over the last couple weeks. I've been doing a lot of practicing lately, and I would guess that I'm probably picking up about 60% more of my spares than I was before. The last couple weeks I've been averaging right at about 190-200. Mostly spares with 2 or 3 strikes per game, leaving 1 maybe 2 open frames. Although I must say that if I leave the tenth frame open I can't break 170, which I did today, because I was experimenting with my line again.

On a brighter note, I am going to get a chance to bowl on a sport shot tomorrow. The house a normally bowl at is laying down the shots tomorrow night to give everyone considering the league a chance to play them first.

When I first started bowling in leagues a couple months ago the plan was to just bowl the house shots, but after watching the kids just throw the ball out on the lane and get strike after strike without any effort at all I quickly changed my mind. I'm sitting here pouring my soul into my game and struggling and here they are blindly throwing the ball onto the lane and watching the boomerang come back and nail the pocket for a strike time after time. I decided that maybe if I tried out the sport shot and tried to work on my game on that, there would be less chance of the kids throwing a ball behind their back for a strike.

Bottom line is that I truly want to get better. I don't want to just figure out how to throw the ball out on the lane and have it come back for a strike. I want the satisfaction to know that I got a strike because of skill and not because of a forgiving house shot that has a groove in it right to the pocket.

I've only been bowling for 2 fall seasons, & I just finished my first PBAX league. I booked a 186 avg last fall and since no one on my team wanted to bowl I went into the PBAX. It was a learning experience to say the least. As you said that you do better when oil is out there, I am the same way my best avgs were on the shark and our league also had the world championship pattern for 2 weeks. The rest of the time it was kind of a struggle. How many balls do you bring to the house I had 2 + spare ball, by time league was over I had 3 and probably needed to get rid of 1 then add 1 more. It is not a matter of how well you bowl in my opinion, imho it's about ball choice first the surface management second the how you bowl third. I saw guys bringing 6 balls and they were still lost also. Next summer I'll take my money and get lessons every other week like Coachjim said I should do when I asked about joining this summer league. however I'll let you know if it helps me on a THS cuz fall season starts this Thursday & I've only bowled 6 games on THS this summer. I will say this...relax I know I tried to hard focusing on a singleboard for target, instead of a 3 board area downlane.

I will say this.

I bowled in a Sport League for 6 weeks. I was surprised in myself how I didn't know how to bowl but I found it fun to work on different ways and so on.

If you love oil and a challenge then is probably the best challenge you'll face compare to a standard house shot that allowed you get away with errors. As told to me by some of the better players and a few world class bowlers that this is way you learn to bowl better on a house shot because you're not watching the lane, you are watching your ball on every roll. You're looking for the entry angle, watching the pins and getting the most reading. Also you will figured out that you threw a good ball or a bad ball.

In the end, you need to have some coaching on hitting your target to do well in this type of league but be prepared to expect nasty results until you can relax and improve with a positive attitude. If you get upset over a good shot and you got rob then you in a world of more of them to come. If you know you bowled well that night and the results isn't the score sheet or you know what to work on then you have something to achieve that will be rewarded later on.

Thats my advice and its your decision to you wish to join and don't let other on here tell you what you can or can not do.

Okay, I'm not feeling so intimidated now. Tonight's practice pattern that they laid down was the viper. Either it's one of the more easier patterns or I was just extremely lucky.

As I said before my average over the summer was 140. Tonight I bowled 6 games and didn't have a game under 160. I had four in a row at 175 1 at 161, and a 182.

Now I'm stoked.

Don't be surprised if every pattern doesn't play similar, even to the house shot. It takes a lot to get the patterns to play like they are suppose to and most centers aren't going to go through the process.

Only 1 more week of PBA Patterns. I will say this. This year, I learned a lot more than I did before. I was reading the lanes much better, and making minor adjustments better. I had more trouble on the shorter patterns than the longer ones, which I found inconsistent with previous times. Best night was on Scorpion. Highest game was on Shark.

But, the important thing is that I am much more conscious of what I am doing with my backswing, and release. I can see the difference between a good shot and bad one. I don't need another ball. I need to fix me to be more consistent.

I was more aware of the need to be more accurate, this year. Just a board or two makes a huge difference in the result.

I feel that my release has improved. I am getting more revs. My spare shooting has also improved over the Summer. I was pleasantly surprised at that. Still not where I would like it. But, it is getting there.

Got reacquainted with my Conqueror on the heavier oil, and I really like that ball. It likes the oil too. My weaker balls performed better this year also, so it must be my release that has improved.

Ready to take another step this year in league. I am starting out better than I started last year, in body control, swing and release. Don't think I will lose the first half, as I did last year, lowering my average.

That's a mental bragging plaque for you. A quadruplicate of 175. Good bowling and keep it up!

pba experience is something i wish i could find around here. something else to learn would be a good thing. i learn by doing and i like to try things. it seems it would be a great thing to do.

It is nice to see someone acknowledge their problems and know how to improve on them then find a quick solution like getting a new ball just to solved the problem.

Also, I like how you are humble with yourself Dennis. Thats something a lot of bowlers that I encounter can not accept. There is a problem with them then their equipment.

But thumb ups for improving.

I agree there aren't many Average Joe Bowlers who will admit to having a problem and will blame their equipment or the condition. Their idea of adjustment is another ball, yet they missed their target by 6 boards.

This past season I had a teammate on one of my teams ridicule me when he said it was the ball and I honestly admitted I screwed up on something like missing 3 boards inside or turned my hand early when I knew it was me.

PBA Leagues will teach you three things. The first is humility. And the second is where the weak points in your game are. The third is explore and try new things.

Me personally, I noticed that I do a lot of things wrong that are detramental to my game. And I've been trying to fix them and it has been showing like my muscling and grabbing the ball. However, my spare game has been suffering (and spares are critical in these leagues)because I don't have a plastic ball to throw at spares and these conditions are very unforgiving unlike house patterns. So I have to improvise and throw one of my balls with the finger position that eliminates as much hook as possible and come up under the ball to get a straight roll. I'm having more trouble on my multi-pin spares and almost no trouble on single pin spares.

That aside I almost rarely ever blame the ball and for that matter the lanes. Every now and again there will be a puddle on the lane or a belt mark on the Track, but more often than not it's my fault. I'd say that about 9 out 10 times it's me that threw the ball bad. People tell me to move boards when I pull balls and drift. They tell me to move and I'm say, "I can't move. I threw the ball bad. That line could still work for me." And it's the simple truth, I could take their advice and move right off of my strike line.

Regardless it's tough and definately worth the experince, just don't have high hopes that you'll have a 200+ average (somewhat of an exaggeration).

I have bowled by one saying that my first instructor said to me. "The ball only goes where you roll it". Thanks, Dad.

and this is one reason i like seeing what dennis has to say --->" humble" yes sir you are and i think that makes a big difference. i would like to see one of these pba leagues but it anit going to happen around here. also i agree with inferno. i like to say i'm doing it wrong when i'm doing it wrong. i know i mess up and i can tell when i mess up. when you bowl like i do you can tell when you roll a good ball. you feel it. and you also feel a bad one to. i try to adjust and go on with it. i wasn't the ball that put itself in the gutter i'm pretty sure i had something to do with it. but does the usbc website show where i mite could find one of the pba leagues?

Sort of. you could go to find a league. It will list all of the centers "that have registered" in your area. We have two leagues in two different centers in my town and neither of them are listed on the web site.

180fury, get the phone of your Association in your area from your bowling center. They will have the location of any PBA/Sport league. They have to since there is an extra sanction fee charged, and the House has to submit tapes of the oil pattern to them.

I know my Association has a website that lists all leagues in every (13) house.

dennis i can't figure out why you dont live in alabama move please !
anyway... thanks i'll do that. i can call alvin and see what he says. he's my wifes boss at AMF, so he should know who i can talk to.

what is the extra sanction fee for ?

coming into this thread kind of late, just wanted to say that i had a 'PBAX summer' too and i would recommend it to anybody who really wants to work on their skills. warning, the usual house shot will seem really boring to you afterwards.

Good question. I was told it is for extra record keeping since PBA and Sport leagues have separate honor scores and indications on your sanction records.
But, the common practice of late is to lay down a sport shot, and NOT sanction it to avoid the extra fee.

Alabama huh???? I travel light. 4-ball roller, golf clubs and a 26' boat that I can sleep in if I have to. Yeah, bowl, fish and golf. Oh, can I bring my guns? I hunt too.

Let's see, in a few years, I can live on my boat. Hunt and fish for food. And a monthly Government check can pay for bowling and golf. Mmmm
Seems like a plan.

Hmm, invite Dennis over, and he asks "Can I bring my guns?"

I would re-think the invitation.