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#62935 - 08/01/08 08:52 PM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Atochabsh]
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Bracket Donor
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 147
A/S/L: 39/M/Fort Wayne, IN
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I have been told by the Pro Shop operator that it is the fastest way to become a better bowler. I strongly disagree with this. IMO, the fastest way to become a better bowler is to engage in a bi weekly private coach, practise 4+ days a week and do that for about 4 months (maybe even two months). You'll get better. That is providing that the coach you engage has a knowledge of lane transition, good sense of ball choice, and spare shooting formulas. Erin Funny thing is that I am already doing this.. I have a coach on a bi-weekly basis and I practice about 16 games a week. As far as knowing what I am doing wrong and knowing when I'm hitting my mark... I know where I went wrong as soon as I release the ball... I also know as soon if I release the ball if it's going to be a strike. The problem I have is hitting my mark with every ball. If I take the time and slow down, remember to bend my knees at the start of my approach it keeps me from slouching and my ball is almost perfect every time... I just have trouble remembering to do that.
Edited by Brian Pickell (08/01/08 08:52 PM)
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In the bag:
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Registered: 27/08/04
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#62936 - 08/01/08 09:09 PM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Brian Pickell]
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USBC Bronze Coach
Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4066
A/S/L: 42/F/California
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The problem I have is hitting my mark with every ball. If I take the time and slow down, remember to bend my knees at the start of my approach it keeps me from slouching and my ball is almost perfect every time... I just have trouble remembering to do that. The repetition has not set in stone yet. There are a surprisingly great amount of motions that together result in a well executed bowling ball. The problem with the PBA Exp leagues is that every little inconsistency (even ones you have not yet recognized) will be exploited. In fact many shots will probably be a combination of errors. Most times it won't be just one thing. And when trying to determine what you did well and didn't do well each and every shot takes a very sound mental game as well as pysical game. A PBA Exp league will show you when you make the smallest inconsistency. It will not tell you what that is. Consequently if you strike, you may have done so based on luck and a combination of motions that may not be your normal Execution. Yet because you are in a PBA Exp league you will use that strike as a sign that you did everything from approach to delivery as 100% right. Not necessarily so. Sometimes two wrongs make a right. Just happens. What a lot of beginner bowlers find is that the PBA Exp league confuses them, makes them doubt every movement that goes into delivering the ball. Sucks the confidence out of you. And when that happens you doubt everything. This game is a great sport of repetition, but it also is tough on the old noggin. Sport and PBA leagues are great at creating the "frog guts" syndrome. What do you get when you dissect a frog? Frog guts, no more no less. A plate of guts that are incredibly hard to put back together. Erin
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#62938 - 08/01/08 09:35 PM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Amateur]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Is that just your area or are you saying there should be two houses in any area that have PBAX leagues run by a pro or certified coach? Amateur, 2 years ago, we had 12 PBAX Leagues across the 13 houses in our Association. This year, there were only 2. Lack of interest was cited as the reason most cancelled. The 2 that continue are run by touring pros, who bowl out of those houses, and actually help the bowlers right on the spot. They also give lessons on the patterns right afterwards. Success is proven by the increased number of bowlers in each house, and the honor scores recorded in each.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc
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#62949 - 08/02/08 07:25 AM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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Bracket Donor
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 147
A/S/L: 39/M/Fort Wayne, IN
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I talked to my coach about this very thing yesterday, and he has brought up a lot of the same points that you guys did. Funny how that works  . Anyway, he also said that because of the way I bowl I might surprise myself and do pretty well. Because, as I said earlier I'm not a fan of dry lanes, So I tend to play where the oil is at (at our houses that is usually up the center) When I can't play my normal line, because of the lanes drying out. I tend to move closer to the center and bring my hand more up the back of the ball and play a lot straighter shot with only about 3 or 4 boards of movement on the ball. I do think that my biggest problem as you said will be my inconsistencies. I am not naive, I don't think I'm going to go into this and have that light switch turn on and just start bowling strikes. But I was really hoping to go out and use the experience to try and learn about how to play a better game. And possible get better at the same time. The only thing that I'm really worried about is; there just is not anyway to practice these sport shots at all. My only chance to play on them will be on league night and I think that stinks. Edit for spelling (it's early)
Edited by Brian Pickell (08/02/08 07:26 AM)
_________________________
In the bag:
14LB Black Widow Solid 14LB Brunswick T-Zone 14LB Ebonite NVD 15LB Emerald Vibe
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#62951 - 08/02/08 08:15 AM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Brian Pickell]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Brian, that is the major problem with PBA patterns. The remaining houses that have this type of league dedicate another night and put down the pattern that will be used on the next league night. A House near me puts down the PBA shot, but only on the first 6 lanes on an alternate night for practice. This is also done at another house I know of. At least, that gives you another opportunity.
Ask the center where you will bowl if they will do that.
My experience tells me that the straighter shot bowler has less negative impact in this condition than the big bending type of bowler. It is not uncommon to see a 20+ pin average drop for them.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc
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#62954 - 08/02/08 08:50 AM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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USBC Bronze Coach
Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4066
A/S/L: 42/F/California
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If you play up the middle you will not see much difference. This is a common result for people that "play up the middle". There is little to no pocket entry angle, low scoring ball path. The same will be had on a sport condition. You might get a bit more backend due to the tendancy for sport and PBA conditions to have stronger backends then a house shot. But it will still not teach you how to deal with the variations of oil.....if you play up the middle. You are not really playing the shot, you are just playing the middle. Just like you do on any other shot in any other house. So you will probably not see the common 20 pin drop that higher average bowlers experience. But I still do not think it will make you a better bowler. Most house shots do not have a shot in the middle. The shot is more around the 10 board or maybe the 5 to 8 board. But not the middle (20 board). What is the format of this league? Ask your coach if he would put you on his team for this PBA Exp. league. Because you will learn more that way. Undoubtedly you will learn more with a tutor on the lanes at the same time. which I've always been a strong proponent of. I'd not bowl unless it was on his team. Keep in mind that he's kind of advocating this, so he should have room on his team for you. He should see you has a huge benefit if he's suggesting this. Erin
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#62956 - 08/02/08 12:12 PM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Atochabsh]
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Bracket Donor
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 147
A/S/L: 39/M/Fort Wayne, IN
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What is the format of this league? Ask your coach if he would put you on his team for this PBA Exp. league. Because you will learn more that way. Undoubtedly you will learn more with a tutor on the lanes at the same time. which I've always been a strong proponent of. I'd not bowl unless it was on his team. Keep in mind that he's kind of advocating this, so he should have room on his team for you. He should see you has a huge benefit if he's suggesting this.
It's a draft league.. They do a new draft every 9 weeks. 4 person teams with 4 different average groups... Low average being lead off man with high average being team captain. You lead off man is competing against all of the other lead off men in the league as well as the teams competing against each other. So that the teams are supposed to be a little more even. If I remember correctly it is as follows: under 150 151-175 176-200 201+ Since I don't have an established average with the USBC I'm guessing it will go off of my first night.. Not sure how that will work since it is a draft league.
_________________________
In the bag:
14LB Black Widow Solid 14LB Brunswick T-Zone 14LB Ebonite NVD 15LB Emerald Vibe
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#62959 - 08/02/08 01:17 PM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Brian Pickell]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Without an established average, and assuming this is a sanctioned league, you should be given a blind score to start, and your average will usually be based on your first 9 games. A sanctioned average will be set after 21 games.
I will say this, you have been given the opportunity in advance here to know what to look for. Your coach seems favorable to this move, and you also seem positive in your mental commitment. So, you have what you need to advance.
Good luck.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc
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#63720 - 08/10/08 10:28 AM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Brian Pickell]
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Legend
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1804
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
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Funny thing is that I am already doing this.. I have a coach on a bi-weekly basis and I practice about 16 games a week.
As far as knowing what I am doing wrong and knowing when I'm hitting my mark... I know where I went wrong as soon as I release the ball... I also know as soon if I release the ball if it's going to be a strike.
The problem I have is hitting my mark with every ball. If I take the time and slow down, remember to bend my knees at the start of my approach it keeps me from slouching and my ball is almost perfect every time... I just have trouble remembering to do that. There has been an ongoing debate about whether sport leagues help or hurt you, and I'm on the side that they will help you as long as you go in with the right mental attitude. Where problems arise is when people get good at bowling on house conditions, have no idea that they're no where near accurate and then can't hit the headpin on a sport condition. If a person had always bowled on a sport condition, they would have been forced to develop the good habits that promote accuracy. Because most people bowl on house shots that make accuracy pretty unimportant, they never had to work on hitting the same board shot after shot. Taking a guess, I think the thing that you'll notice is that what you think is missing your mark now is actually missing by a lot. If you have 2 boards room at the arrows, it will be a lot. You'll also have to release the ball consistently to get a consistent reaction. Again, if someone grew up on conditions like this (like they did 30+ years ago), no one would think twice about it. The conditions would dictate that you work on your accuracy to score. House conditions today don't dictate that so we as bowlers don't work on it. We naturally gravitate to do other things that will raise our scores. Sport conditions force bowlers to prioritize accuracy. For some bowlers, this is to much of a change from what they're used.
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#63722 - 08/10/08 11:27 AM
Re: Considering PBA Experience and have a question
[Re: Lefty]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3221
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Brian, set your main goal. Are you going to be a house bowler , couple of times a week. Or, are you going to bowl in tournaments and more difficult conditions?
House bowling is more forgiving and many people, probably the vast majority, are very satisfied with that as their level. Others, look for the additional challenge that lane conditions can provide.
In my few years of PBA experience, I find a strange phenomena taking place. Higher average bowlers have a negative impact when first faced with this. It is now an accepted fact that your average will drop 15-20 pins. And, that is for reason.
However, as I have seen, there is lesser impact on those who average, lets say, under 175. My assessment of this is a first ball syndrome. It is much more difficult to strike on PBA conditions, and that's what the higher average bowlers need to maintain their average. Other bowlers don't rely on strikes, but can make their share of spares. PBA conditions won't hurt that bowler as much.
If your revs are lower than 300, your speed is controlled, you work with a turn of 6 boards or less, and can roll straight at spares, a PBA pattern won't affect you as much.
What it does is let you develop and improve under the toughest conditions as others are developing on a House shot. Bottom line, you will ultimately have more success. It may take a short while longer, but it will happen, especially with training.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc
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