Because of what happened last night I wanted to start a thread to get everyone’s opinion on Brooklyn strikes.

I was living out on what for me is the edge, trying to hit the 4 or 5 board to the pocket. I have a tendency to once in awhile while I am playing this line to plunk one in the channel or hang it out so far I miss the pocket all together. I think as a result I was subconsciously hitting the 7 board most of the time and blasting the Brooklyn pocket. After a very rough practice and first 3 frames where everything was high I was relieved to have a strike ball working but I was crossing over probably about 75% of the time. I was nailing the Brooklyn pocket and blasting the pins into oblivion so in all honesty I was not that concerned. I even hit the Brooklyn light a few times and carried. In the past like most of us I have missed the mark a few times and carried a Brooklyn but this was just crazy. Even crazier was when I did hit the regular pocket flush several times it did not carry.

A fellow bowler (A pretty good bowler I should add) once told me that if your line is so that the Brooklyn is more effective or it is where you are hitting and carrying there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t think a lot of people share this opinion but after last night I was left feeling that if that was where I was most effective why mess with success. If not for those first 3 frames and a concentration meltdown in the last game I could have rode that line to my highest series since my comeback.

So I am interested to hear opinions about Brooklyn strikes. I found out last night that when you bowl a 234 with a ton of Brooklyn’s you do not get anywhere close to the respect you are given if you bowl a 234 with solid regular pocket hits. This was a one of a kind night that will likely never happen again but I felt the shame that goes with crossing over and “getting lucky” all night long.

I use to get really upset at Brooklyn strikes because it meant I was missing my mark....bad. My goal is to find my way to the 1-3 pocket and stay there. With how many times I've been robbed on good pocket hits I've learned to be thankful for every strike I get.

It hasn't happened in years but if I was to have a night where a bunch of cross overs got me in the 230 range I wouldnt worry about respect. I'd take it as a lucky game and make adjustments in the next one. When I see people bowling against me carry the opposite side all night I dont look at it as their ability. I see it as them missing by a lot and being rewarded for it. It happens a lot though, it hurts worse when it's in handicap leagues.

I dont really get upset on broklyn strik i will adjust off of it though. I seen people get upset if they get one and i see opposing team members get upset they cant carry perfect pocket hits while others can carry broklyns. Too me it all looks the same on score boards.

I had someone tell me yesteday when i shot a 229 it was worse 229 he ever saw because i happened to get some messenger slice out the ten pin. I take it either way i can get them.

I'll take the brooklyn strikes. I'm not as happy about them but they're still a strike. It's pretty annoying to go broklyn and watch it hit flat and leave the 5 or 5-9 I think it is. Powerful brooklyn strikes are fun to see. Either way, I never adjust for brooklyn. Always go for the 1-3, I believe unless you're in extreme conditions there's always a way to score.

They're the best miss you can get. So be happy that you were "lucky" enough to put down all ten and not leave a 5 pin or something worse. Simply adjust and let it be.

Of course if it's me who gets a Brooklyn strike I will take it, especially if I am having a bad game to begin with. I will also high five a member of the opposing team if they get a 4 or a 5-bagger, but not if that string consists of Brooklyn strikes. I don't congratulate luck or bad bowling.

johnw,

Your post kind of sums up the lack of respect. I think a lot of it in my case Tursday night was jealousy because the regular pocket was really touchy and I kind of by accident found a way to score bigger than anyone else that particular night. Actually I consider it good bowling because through 6 practice balls and the 3 first balls I had moved everywhere and was unable to find anything but the nose so I finally locked in on something that worked very well. In the past I would have ended up with a mid 400 series on a night like that. I was just in one of those zones where if I hit it flush regular pocket, a little high, or Brooklyn I was getting 9 or better most of the time. My 2 huge splits came when I hit the regular pocket light which was what a lot of the other bolwers were struggling with. I did not have that problem because I was crossing over and throwing crushing strikes.

I myself tend to not get too upset if someone is getting lucky because I think we all have those nights and that is part of the thrill of the game. I think people who say things like what that guy said to Brandon is wrong. Why even bother to say something like that is the worst 229 game unless you are jealous. The proof is in Execution and if someone executes and gets the scores because the ball is reacting a certain way so be it, no need to belittle their accomplishment.

In looking back I actually was exactly half and half in Brooklyn and Regular pocket hits on the night (7 & 7). I guess it just seems like more because normally I would only corss over a few times a night.

What someone thinks and what someone does when people carry over is different. If someone finds it necessary to tell you your 229 was weak they are just pissed they didn't shoot as high or lost the game due to that score. It could be them checking your mental game too. I never make it a point to down play someone's score or what ever. I give them their celebratry hand slap like it was a dead flush hit. If we lose a tight game and I see a bunch of cross overs from their team I may not like it but it is what it is, accept it and move on.

Most people can't and won't carry Brooklyn all night, all series or all league. Chances are if they are off that much they will pay for it sooner or later. It's part of developing your average. My favorite part is when they actually do make adjustments and find 10 pins lol

I dont think you should get mad at anyone or up them down - who happens to be carrying good that night. We all have nights we have terrific carry and then some nights we can get a break. Its bowling suppose to be fun that why i bowl. I keep cheering people on no matter how they get there strike.

I seen a guy get broklyn for 300 on last ball. Yeah it was lucky but hey it still a great achievement.

Be honest with yourself. Were you lining up to strike on the Brooklyn or were you crossing over from where you were trying to hit and carried strikes on the Brooklyn?

If a person was trying to hit the opposite pocket and was doing it with success, more power to them. If however someone was trying to hit their own pocket and missed and crossed over, that's a completely different story.

For me personally, I'll apologize for strikes where I crossed over. Again, for me it's a bad shot that where I got a lucky result. On sport patterns when I've thrown a couple in a game and managed a decent score, I'm still disappointed. There's a difference between bowling well and scoring well. I'm happier when I execute well and don't get breaks than when I execute poorly and get lucky breaks.

The lack of respect you talk about is because it's not a good shot. It's a bad shot that happened to strike.

You're going Brooklyn strikes because of the following reasons.

You have shorten up your swing.
Too much revs and less speed.
Ball is rolling earlier in the midlane.
Wrong Ball.
Wrong Angle.

Solutions.

Follow thru without muscling the shot.
Add more speed with a smoother slide and change hand positions if necessary.
Ball selection is important. So a weaker ball could battle the lane condition.
Find a more direct path to the pocket then swinging it if you can or just add more speed with your revs.

There is always two ways to approach things on the lanes. The easy way or the hard way. Both ways work.

If you like hitting Brooklyn and that is your game plan. Let it be.

If you like a challenge and find a way to get to the right side of the pocket. It can be fun and rewarding once you figured it out.

humm....brooklyn strikes just happen. no matter what, someone, sometime, will get one. yup it will happen. just go on with it. beating yourself up about it wont help nothing. nothing. i dont take it as bad luck either. i take it as- i need to make the adjustment and try to hit the 1-3. but if i hit it i hit. tuff, i take them. i bowl to bowl. i'm not pro. dont want to be. i like having fun with it. plus i try for them sometimes with my spare ball to see if i can get one. why not? if you try for one and get it, thats just helping your accuracy. you hit where you wanted to. so go try it on the other side and see what happens. i guess i practice a lot different than every one else. plus , saying something about the way someone got there high score is a bit rash. or jusr poor sportsman ship. i don't understand that one either. we just yell brooklyn when it happens and yell sandbagger for fun. no one cares. i like brooklyns. there fun to watch too. they hit a lot different. a lot more messy too

Lefty,

If I am being totally honest as you say I was aiming for the 5 board but I found out quick that anywhere in that 5-7 board range from where I was standing would work because I would either hit the pocket, hit a little high but get away with it, or cross over strong to the Brooklyn. I dream about those forgiving conditions and finding a spot like that.

As far as being happier because I executed well rather than scored well I don’t quite understand that. If I was using a conventional line (like I was in the first 3 frames when I opened in every one of them) and struggling like the other bowlers we would have lost all 4 games instead of splitting 2-2. Does not do much good to execute by the book if you do not score well and lose all your games. Just because my line was unconventional does not mean I was not executing.

In my honest opinion I feel the lack of respect comes not from a bad shot that happened to strike. Maybe if these were random lucky sloppy shots but these were crushing all 10 in the pit shots. I think it is that I had found a way to beat the lane condition unconventionally and beat bowlers on the opposite team with averages 24 and 35 pins higher than mine who could not get it figured out. As a bowler who averages in the 160-170 range this happens a lot when you encounter certain bowlers who think they are too good to get beat by a lower average bowler so they make up excuses as to why they lost (like the guy telling Brandon it was the worst 229 game he ever saw). One night light hits were tearing up the pocket so I kept holding that line and was getting the constant “are you going to take that” and head shakes. I get tired of certain people who think they are so good that they can dictate what is good bowling and bad bowling. I am supposed to change my line to a more conventional pocket hit no matter what is carrying? I don’t think so. When I get beat by a bowler with a much lower average I am the first to congratulate them no matter how they got it done. Yes it can be frustrating but I would never have a holier than thou attitude because it just makes you look bitter because you just got your clock cleaned. Why would you want to take away from what that person accomplished whether it be by luck or not? Just man up and accept it.

Well I guess I have really taken off on my soapbox but I needed to get that off my chest. Actually I did plenty enough what I consider bad bowling that night in the first three frames and after the first frame of the last game when I started spraying the ball all over the place. It is kind of ironic that in that game I had 2 regular pocket splits. If I hadn’t lost my focus and held that line longer I would have likely had my highest series since my comeback 2 years ago.

There are a couple of ways to look at this. The most probable way is to say you missed your mark, and were lucky enough to cross and strike. The other way is that the law of averages evens itself out.

Yeah, I try to hit a set of marks on every ball. I do it with a fair regularity. But, sometimes, I miss right, and sometimes I miss left. When I miss left, I hope for a crossover strike. That evens out the buried shots where I left an 8 or a 9 or a solid 10.

So, even though it is a missed target, it balances the good shots where I thought I should have carried. Just like hitting the 1-2-3 pocket or the even rarer strike where I didn't even hit the head pin.

So, if the name of the game is to get strikes, and the probability was higher to hit the 1-2-3 head on, everyone would do it. But, a Brooklyn is a shot of low probability that does have the possibility of a strike. So, take it when it comes.

It balances out. It is just a shot of lower probability.

That's not a forgiving condition. If you're on a house shot and hitting your own pocket and also crossing over, You're either missing by a lot, not close to being lined or or both. I can tell you that on a house shot, I'd have to pull the ball a whole arrow to actually cross over and strike if I was lined up. I don't cross over where I could carry a strike on a sport shot when I miss by 2 boards. Something is very wrong with what you're describing. Like I said, either you're missing by a lot more than you're admitting to or you're really in the wrong part of the lane.



Execution is also mental Execution. It's getting lined up. It's making the right moves when you should. Randomly hitting your own pocket and the opposite pocket and getting strikes wasn't about you out bowling someone else. Your scored enough to take 2 points, but in my book you didn't bowl well.



You're admitting to the ball finishing 10+ boards different and getting strikes on both sides of the head pin. Yes, those are lucky strikes. There's no 2 ways about it. To me it doesn't sound like you knew where the ball was going to finish when it came off your hand. How can it not be a "lucky strike" when you don't really know where it's going? Or really even where you want it to go?



I've gotten beaten by lower average bowlers and it really never bothers me. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. That said, this isn't about someone beating me. It's about any bowler being honest with themselves. A good shot is not one that you don't know where it's going. I've had people cross over on multiple shots and beat me. So be it. It doesn't make those shots good shots, and it doesn't make the game a good game. On a house shot, you have to miss by a lot to cross over. A lot. Less of a miss has a good chance of leaving a split. You'd consider going through the head pin bad, right? Crossing over is a bigger miss.

Maybe it's just me, but I want to bowl well, not just score well. Crossing over tells me something was really wrong.

I agreed with what you wrote Lefty. We're on the same boat. But, I think if you are not going to be honest if you threw a good shot or not then its pointless to learn anything but cheat yourself of your own rewards.

That why I posted the following information as how to improve, adjust and read your ball on the lane.

I think we have 2 schools of thought here. I don’t think you can say either one is wrong or right, just different opinions. I still contend that if I am playing an “area” and blasting the pocket on either side I am bowling good. I am staying in that area and having success so how is that a bad thing? Until bowling becomes a sport where you score based on where you hit and not if all the pins fall down I would do the same thing if I were ever fortunate enough to have it happen again (not likely).

As far as your concerns about me not being honest with myself I wonder why you two (Lefty, DjRIPz) are even bringing it up? Is it so important? Do you think it is important that I, a person who bowls one league, three games a week, little or no practice, averaging in the 160-170 range, who has recently struggled through four weeks of sub 500 series, who already knows I am a decent bowler at best, know that in your opinions that I really bowled lousy and just lucked into a couple of good scores? Getting a 230 is quite an accomplishment for me no matter how I do it.

This gets me back to my original rant. Certain better bowlers do not consider how lesser bowlers feel when they get up on their high horse and refuse to give high-fives or congratulate someone on an excellent score. They act like they never get a break on a high hit or a cross-over. Thankfully a lot of the guys who are really good have enough sense to know that we are not under some delusion that we are suddenly pros, that we found a good line that night and used it, that we just had a good night, and that we too deserve to be congratulated on a job well done without a need to point out any shortcomings we may have had in getting there.

Well said, Scott. While I may not be proud of myself after a Brooklyn, I'll smile and gladly take the result. I might feel bad if its decisive in the match, but I know eventually I'll be on the wrong end of one too. It's all part of the game. Everybody gets lucky sometimes. If someone who thinks they are a better bowler than you believes you beat them purely on luck, they should have bowled better and left no doubt or room for luck to intervene.

I don't know where you get the idea that I am disrespecting another bowler by not congratulating him on carrying a Brooklyn strike. If a bowler is aiming for the 1-3 pocket, yanks the ball and goes Brooklyn or worse yet, punches the nose and strikes, I am supposed to congratulate him? Sorry I won't do it. However, if he gets a string of three or four in the 1-3 pocket, even if his string costs my team the game, I am the first to congratulate him.

I don't get upset if the other team is getting lucky strikes. And I don't care for you to imply that I would "belittle" the guy who just got a lucky strike. I try and keep a poker face and maintain an even temperament. The effect is it has on me is to put it out of my mind and concentrate harder on my own game.

Do you ever see higher average bowlers do this? Do they "play an area" and "blast the pocket on either side"? Do you think that there might be a correlation between consistently scoring higher and accuracy?



Again, there's a difference between a good score and good bowling. One doesn't always mean the other. I've bowled bad at shot 750 and I've bowled great and shot 590. I know how I bowled and I don't walk away from a bad night of bowling where I scored decent thinking that I bowled well. If all you care about is the score (and that's what it appears like), so be it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not the mind set that will help you to improve as a bowler. You may not want to improve and that's OK too, but just because you're not focused on executing well doesn't make it wrong that other people care about it.



Where you hit has a lot to do with how you score. The higher someone scores on a consistent basis, the less they cross over as well.

We all get lucky strikes, Brooklyn shots, rare splits and so on. That is apart of the game but in your mind you think that bowling on the Brooklyn side is easier to strike. It is but it can be hard to adjust after a while plus why buy a ball to hook if you can just throw a plastic ball on the opposite side of the pocket?

If you want to brag about your high games doing Brooklyn shots, thats fine with me but you shouldn't complains about the lane if you not seeing that the problem could be your selection in ball, your speed, your hand position, timing or many other reasons.

If you are not concerns about that and just care about the score in the end then fine. But, I don't frown on a Brooklyn shot, its a feedback to me saying.. it is time to adjust or did you throw a good shot or were you lined up? If I did not have the feedback then I would not be scoring well in my mind knowing that I did the best that I could regardless of the results.

So.. if you think Lefty and I are being harsh on you. Maybe you just don't see it the way we see it but we're not here to criticize your score or achievements. We are just helping you on your situation or problem that you posted on here.

If you can't take healthy criticism from us that could give you answers to your own questions then I guess you have no desire to improve and just brag about your high score once in a while when it could be more than once in a while.

Just a thought.

Johnw,

I did not mean to imply that your actions would belittle a fellow bowler and if you felt that way let me apologize. I was just giving my personal opinion on how I feel. Then again I am not in a big money or super competitive league. I imagine it would be different in those type leagues. I am in a mixed league chock full of lower skilled bowlers so it is common to let the high-fives fly regardless of the quality of the strike.

My policy is to not get into the business of judging the quality of a strike. On the lanes I bowl on depending on the night high hits might carry, light hits may carry, and as this post has shown Brooklyn hits may carry. Much easier to just give the obligatory high five and move on like Silent Mike said. Again this is my personal preference.

I have become a little more fired up on this topic than I should but like I said it is very hard for someone like me to get a 230 let alone to then have people popping up saying you really didn’t bowl good or opposing team members not even saying so much as “Nice Game” or “Nice Score”. It is just my opinion that common good sportsmanship requires that unless the person was a real [censored]. You get what you give so if those either of the guys on the other team in the future were to bowl in the 250’s but a few of their hits were high or crossed over there would be no congratulations coming from me. I would have to assume they would not expect it unless they bowled a game where every single shot hit the 1-3 perfectly.

Scott, an X is an X, and you can't tell the difference on the scoresheet.

Lefty, I know there is a correlation between accuaracy and higher scoring. All I am saying is I found a spot that worked to where I did not have to be as accurate that particlar night on those particular lanes as they were.

League bowling is about being a team. There are nights when I have scored awful and my team has picked up the slack. When my team needs me I cannot be selfish and worry about working on my game in the middle of a match where we need all the strikes we can get. That can be saved for another time and place like practice.

Normally I do not cross over like this. That was what was so weird about it and I remember a guy saying there was nothing wrong with hitting the Brooklyn if that is where you carry. I do not think it will happen on a regular basis but as I said on that particular night it worked. It truly was one of the strangest nights of bowling I have experienced.

Thanks Dennis,

Like I said it is hard enough for me to come up with a 200 a lot of nights let alone a 234 and I guess I just do not agree that because I was throwing a lot of cross overs I was bowling bad.

DjRIPz,

I do not intend to throw Brooklyns and this was just a rare case where I found something that is not normally there. Actually I am kicking myself still for the last game where I really came unglued because I couldn't even come close to that area I had been playing and swung the ball out too wide and left 2 huge splits on light 1-3 pocket hits. Other than those 2 in the last game my 1-3 pocket hits were effective too where as the others playing inside lines were not having this type of success that night.

If I came across as bragging I did not mean to. I was just pointing out that for this particular night I found a bowling goldmine and it surprised me. I've got a lot of work to do on my game and just do not get to practice much at all so when I am happy when I am able to perform well. Most of my problem is staying focused. I appreciate yours and Lefty's advice but hope you can understand my frustration with being told my 234 was bad bowling.

Scott,

I was not knocking down your game or your score. I was helping or pointing you in a direction that could out-do the 234 and although find a more direct or easier route to the right side of the pocket if there was one or understand why you were going Brooklyn.

By the way, nice shooting on the 234. Most people aren't able to do that on dry mid-lane.

Let me say that I'd never come out and tell someone that any game was bad bowling. I also wouldn't be miffed if I lost to someone who shot 234 and crossed over a bunch. In the past when things like that have happened, I just shake my head and smile. There isn't much you can do about it and it is entertaining. I wouldn't however feel the same about a game where someone was splitting boards and shot 234 though. Now if someone were intentionally aiming for the cross and striking and scoring there, I'd be impressed with that too.

The reason I've said what I've said is because you specifically asked what people thought. For me, a shot that doesn't go where I intended it to go (i.e. crossing over) isn't a good shot. The result may be good, but the shot was not. All I can say is that I'm not impressed with myself when I make bad shots and score well. It feels hollow. This is how my cross overs make me feel. That's even on sport shots.

DjRIPz and Lefty,

I just took it personal when I shouldn't have. I am just coming out of some of the worst bowling and scoring in my life. Over a four week period June 12- July 3 I averaged 145. I set a new low series of 421 only to follow it up with a new low of 399 with a new low game of 113 thrown in. I had been working my way out of it and averaging in the 170's the last 2 weeks and when I opened the first three last Thursday I thought I was well on my way to disaster again. That is why I am kind of proud how I worked through it even if I had to use unconventional means.

Scott, one night my teammate was having a really rough night keeping his ball on the right side. He purposely moved left and aimed for the Brooklyn side through the center oil. Nothing wrong with it. He carried the next 4 strikes.

There are times when I would pull the ball, and I am very happy when my ball has enough to cross over for a Brooklyn. It could save a game or a night.

If it wasn't part of the game, they wouldn't have named it.

One of the guys I bowled with on college would do that. He threw a fairly straight ball. He left a lot of 4 pins and 10 pins with the occasional 5. We were at a tourney in Milwaukee one year. It was brutal for rightys. The top 10 for average were 8 leftys and 2 righty but one of the rightys started throwing a backup ball mid first game. It was a pattern that was basically a ton of oil on the right and gradually next to nothing on the left. We were all struggling and having the ball slide by the pocket or through the nose. He moved his feet way left and started aiming for brooklns. He ended up leading our team in average for the tourney. He pissed off a few people cause they didn't think that it was right. I said to them: He is aiming for a spot and hitting it more often than any of us, what's the problem? He would do the same thing in league and other tourneys where he couldn't carry.

Getting an occasional brooklyn if you are aiming for your own side happens. But when you are spraying all over the place, that it when you need take a step back and look at what you are doing.

Dennis and General Pounder,

Those Brooklyns sure saved my night. I guess we all have our share of breaks with high hits and Brooklyns that like Dennis said tend to even out the good pocket hits we do not get. This was just a night where for most of the night I either hit or crossed over and they went. I did have some high hits in there that I managed to break up so I did not leave splits. Actually my 2 huge splits in the last game were light 1-3 pocket hits.

Scott. Don't worry about it. Its apart of the game and if you had mentioned about your struggled a bit more then I guess I wouldn't be so hard on you.. in a friendly way even so I think you should used all the information that you gathered in your 4 post and do use them. I am sure.. whatever you learn on the lanes or on here, you will improve and just keep your head high thru the struggles.

Nobody is perfect but to be good or great, you have to step and look at the situation.

I think that is why I reacted the way I did and why I got defensive. If I had been coming off a good streak like I had in the spring when I was averaging over 170 for 7 out of 8 weeks I probably would not have got so defensive. It is hard when you have a streak of good bowling and just when I thought I was reaching a new level I fell into that 4 week period where I couldn't get straightened out no matter what I did. The good thing is that I worked through it and in the end I came out stronger and more determined to do better.

Luckily through my struggles the rest of the team has stepped up and it felt good to bail the team out so we at least split the other night. I was really proud that I held my head up and did not fly off the handle during my bad spell. I just kept telling myself if I worked on a few things and kept at it I would be able to get it back and I have.

i like how dennis puts it into prospective. x is x tuff. i like that. i say good job loose or win. i watch my game and there game. and when they've figured out how to hit it brooklyn or just hitting it right , i think " why didn't i do that." also gp i've seen brooklyns help people out so yeah that was a good idea.

x is x tuff. i think that when i miss and i get a brooklyn - i learn something. but i'm not going to keep trying to do it unless needed like gp said. i'll keep trying to adjust to get where i want but if i can't so be it. i think most games are skill and some luck. thats how i think of it. but its nice to see people trying to get there no matter how they get it. it makes them happy and thats what its about. i think i'm not going pro anytime soon. 30 years old- i dont think so. so i just try to take what i get and try to learn from it. and congradulate them no matter what!

Scott, when I was in my 20's and early 30's, I was like a machine. I was consistent with my swing, my speed, my release, everything. Then, I didn't bowl for 24 years.

Now, I am like a mechanic, constantly fixing that machine. My swing is not always right, my speed is sometimes too fast, I pull the ball behind my back, I release wrong. Just, too many things happen.

But, I am normal. I will go high, and more often miss outside. Occasionally, I cross over. And, when that happens, I take it, then try to fix it.

The BOWLING GODS smiled on me for that shot and said, I could do better, but we'll give it to you anyhow. Why, cause I am trying.