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#61837 - 07/18/08 05:46 PM Deg from VAL
J_w73 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 226
A/S/L: 35/M/CA
I think I am correct that when you put the pin at a smaller degree to the VAL the ball will be quicker and more angular off of the breakpoint. Will doing this make the ball go longer as well. Is the ball going longer what creates the increased angularity.

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#61871 - 07/19/08 10:13 AM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: J_w73]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2079
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
What makes the ball go longer is putting the pin farther from
3 3/8" so the ball doesn't flare as much and doesn't roll over as much clean fresh ball surface. Placing the pin closer to the val may cause the ball to go 1-3ft longer depending on ball speed, but the overall hooking area is smaller that is why you see pins closer to the val on longer patterns and lower pins on shorter patterns.

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#61874 - 07/19/08 12:15 PM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: CoachJim]
J_w73 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 226
A/S/L: 35/M/CA
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
What makes the ball go longer is putting the pin farther from
3 3/8" so the ball doesn't flare as much and doesn't roll over as much clean fresh ball surface. Placing the pin closer to the val may cause the ball to go 1-3ft longer depending on ball speed, but the overall hooking area is smaller that is why you see pins closer to the val on longer patterns and lower pins on shorter patterns.


what do you mean the hooking area... ??

Ok.. so a 5 inch pin just under the fingers vs a 5 inch pin close to the val will only be 1 to 3 ft longer on the pin closer to the val?

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#61908 - 07/20/08 08:03 AM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: J_w73]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2079
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Ok.. so a 5 inch pin just under the fingers vs a 5 inch pin close to the val will only be 1 to 3 ft longer on the pin closer to the val?


For instance, the pin under ball will start hooking at 45 ft and be finished hooking at 50ft while the pin close to the val will start hooking at 46ft and be done by 49ft.

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#61919 - 07/20/08 11:02 AM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: CoachJim]
J_w73 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 226
A/S/L: 35/M/CA
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Quote:
Ok.. so a 5 inch pin just under the fingers vs a 5 inch pin close to the val will only be 1 to 3 ft longer on the pin closer to the val?


For instance, the pin under ball will start hooking at 45 ft and be finished hooking at 50ft while the pin close to the val will start hooking at 46ft and be done by 49ft.



thanks for that.. it makes sense now.. and this is all due to the core being left longer by placing the pin higher up close to the VAL?
Maybe putting the pin closer to the val isn't what I want then.

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#62025 - 07/21/08 04:56 PM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: CoachJim]
J_w73 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 226
A/S/L: 35/M/CA
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Quote:
Ok.. so a 5 inch pin just under the fingers vs a 5 inch pin close to the val will only be 1 to 3 ft longer on the pin closer to the val?


For instance, the pin under ball will start hooking at 45 ft and be finished hooking at 50ft while the pin close to the val will start hooking at 46ft and be done by 49ft.



I was still thinking about this.. I thought the position of the mass bias would determine how fast the ball uses its energy. With a pin 1 inch from the VAL what would be the difference between a 70 deg MB vs a 30 deg MB

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#62028 - 07/21/08 06:36 PM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: J_w73]
J_w73 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 226
A/S/L: 35/M/CA
Can a small VAL angle make the ball use up its energy too fast ?

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#62039 - 07/22/08 06:14 AM Re: Deg from VAL [Re: J_w73]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2079
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
I was still thinking about this.. I thought the position of the mass bias would determine how fast the ball uses its energy. With a pin 1 inch from the VAL what would be the difference between a 70 deg MB vs a 30 deg MB


The pin position has a greater influence than mb placement. The mb placement should be used to mildly enhance or slightly subtract from the pin position placement.

Quote:

Can a small VAL angle make the ball use up its energy too fast ?


Yes if the pattern is too short the ball could burn up too fast.

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