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#6186 - 03/17/05 07:14 PM IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
labradorice Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 104
A/S/L: 47/f/montreal, canada
After a year of coaching and rebuilding my game from scratch, I will be joining an additional league (or two depending on $) next season. My goal is to learn as much as I can: strengthening both my mental and physical game.
(BTW, I love bowling under pressure)

MY CHOICES: A) 4 person scratch league,
B) higher average (170+) handicapped doubles, C) 3 person Sports Condition Scratch, D) PBA Shot: 4 person (prob scratch but uncertain)
E) Pins over average 4 person

ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?

Thanks in advance,
labradorice

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#6187 - 03/17/05 08:48 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
It really depends on what you are prepared for mentally and at what level you are bowling at currently. The PBA and Sport leagues are going to be tougher mentally, IMO. First Sport league I joined, broke me down mentally and physically, to pieces about 3 years ago. Effected my bowling in all my leagues and plummetted my average everywhere and every condition I hit. It was a brutal brutal condition. Not even the PBA guys averaged over 190 on it for the season. It's taken me that long to get back up to form again from that league. In my opinion, Sport leagues do not make you a better bowler. They present higher challenges if you are up to them physically and mentally. But unless they are lead by competant coaches that can guide the more average bowlers through it, I found it not helpful at all. Now I took a clinic with guided coaching through the PBA and Sport patterns and it was extremely educational as well as challenging. Honestly I don't think anyone belongs in a sport league that cannot average at least 190 on any house shot.

I love scratch leagues and higher standard handicap leagues. But then I'm not bored of shooting 230s and 250s. If I can do that,on any given night, I'm still excited. For those that are tired of shooting that same old 260 game week after week, then I can see the urge to find something more challenging. :-) For me, I still have plenty to learn on regular patterns to keep me busy.

Erin

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#6188 - 03/18/05 01:16 AM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
labradorice Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 104
A/S/L: 47/f/montreal, canada
Erin, thanks for the quick response.
260s every week..lol shocked )..for me at this point, only in practice!
Having rebuilt my game from scratch, my current league average is not high but I have developed a versatile game
and have average 175-190 for the past 2 months on different conditions. I am extremely motivated by challenges and am not easily frustrated nor intimidated.

I have occasionally bowled various sport shots and it has not been frustrating for me... it has helped my accuracy... then again, I have been getting pointers from a Canadian National Youth coach who runs "Canada's only youth sport league" at my "house". My personal coach (twice a week) is extremely competent and has also worked with our national youth teams...He also occasionally puts out a sport pattern for us. Both coaches are great! (so far I average between 160 and 185, doing better on long oil)
I have joined a summer sports condition league which starts in about 6 weeks and am looking forward to bowling.
with some of our region's competitive bowlers.

I have been reading your posts for about a year (as a lurker shocked )) and I appreciate your perspective.
Your ranking of the 5 choices?

labradorice thumbsup

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#6189 - 03/18/05 01:42 AM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I'd do the 4 person scratch. I think its plenty of competition. As your game gets more solidified, then I'd move onto Sport and PBA conditions. When you've averaged 190 for a year or two, maybe then start thinking Sport Leagues. But I certainly would not avoid any regional tournaments, either for men or women. There you will get a full dose of competition.

Erin

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#6190 - 03/18/05 07:51 AM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Darrell Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 319
A/S/L: 46 Male Michigan
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Atochabsh:
In my opinion, Sport leagues do not make you a better bowler.I love scratch leagues and higher standard handicap leagues.
Erin
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Hello Bowling Fans. Erin, Whoa! You just blew my mind. I am about to finish my first league season in eight years. So I have only last year heard of the Sport League. I held high hopes to participating in it in 2 years, because I thought that this would be the ultimate bowling learning experience. Anymore insight into Sport Leagues.
_________________________
Darrell "D Man"

--------------------
May all your corner pins fall

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#6191 - 03/18/05 01:55 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
What can I tell ya Darrell? :-) I'm just sharing my experience with shooting in Sport Leagues. I did not find them educational. The first one was so beyond playable that challenging didn't really even come into the picture. Across the Nation Sport averages are topping 230 and 300s and 800s were not a rarity. Despite several PBA players, our Sport Condition couldn't turn out a 190+ average or 650+ series. There simply could be no comparison, yet apparently some houses put out a much much easier Sport shot. So what's the point? if houses can still manipulate the shot so that players still get an over inflated score? Accuracy is what you need for Sport conditions, but that condition alone does not make you more accurate. You have to play the condition and trasistions differently then you do the block house shot, so you cannot take experience from the Sport league and directly apply it to the house shot.

Like I said above, Sport Leagues are going to be more challenging, but I don't think they make you a better bowler. They do make you aware that you are not that accurate, but cannot infuse you with accuracy.

Erin

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#6192 - 03/18/05 02:00 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
You're weighing the types of leagues, you might also want to weigh the costs vs. the payout of the leagues too. You'll learn a lot in any of the scratch/PBA/sport shot leagues, but at what cost? I'm not a fan of being the lowest team in a league and becoming the donor. On the other hand, many bowlers I have met don't mind being on the bottom of the totem pole. If you're looking to increase your physical game, are any of your choices 4-game leagues or more?

Regarding sport leagues, I am fully in support of them. Having bowled and managed leagues for both juniors and adults, I do believe they have their place in the bowling hierarchy. You will have to make more accurate shots. More importantly, you will be keenly aware of your timing. Of course, it helps if someone will be there to assist you and spot you, but you will get better with your spares.
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#6193 - 03/18/05 02:05 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
cheetah Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 29/M/Seattle, WA/Right-handed
Is it true that bowlers that can throw a straighter shot if they have to fair better on sport conditions than other bowlers?

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#6194 - 03/18/05 10:59 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
I would say bowlers that can pick up spares fair better. We've seen sport shots that did hook a lot, and the guys throwing straighter up didn't fair better. Are the guys that throw the straighter shots often the guys that can also pick up spares? Sometimes.
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#6195 - 03/18/05 11:32 PM Re: IMPROVEMENT-BEST TYPE OF LEAGUE?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
In addition to the ongoing discussion about how leagues can improve your bowling, I would also throw out there tournament play. Go to as many houses as you can, bowling on as many conditions as are provided. Once you've hit about 50 - 60 different houses, then your experience level is great for the differning environments you find in bowling alleys. For example, does the approach transision smoothly from the settee area? Do you step up? I've bowled in one house where you had to take three large steps down to get from the settee area to the approach. Are there pillors in the building between lanes? Walls right next to the end lanes? Is the lighting poor or good? Have you bowled on tacky synthetic approaches, slick synthetic approaches, old wood approaches? Ball returns that take up more approach area then you are used to. Above ground ball returns that you hit with your trail leg.

Because every house has their own characteristics not only on lane oil pattern but their basic physical layout of the house. Once you've seen a lot of variations then it gets harder to confuse you with the next one. Being perfectly comfortable no matter what house you are bowling in, is a great advantage.

Erin

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