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#60985 - 07/07/08 11:27 AM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Mkirchie]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Okay first of all there is no one way to do things in bowling. With that said it sounds to me that a lot of you have been busting on Sam's high backswing when it was his timing that is off.

I would have to agree that Sam needs to reach the peak of his backswing on his 4th step instead of his 3rd step (kind of what I noticed all along, but didin't know what I was noticing. I guess that's what comes with being a novice).

Sam,
I think Couch would be a good reference for you because his style is similar to yours plus he's a lefty.

Lastly, I still think you should try a higher ball position. It will allow the ball to travel longer in the swing cycle. It won't make your backswing any higher because you're almost completely vertical as is. Any higher and you'll be the only bowler that does front flips on the approach. All I'm saying is that a higher ball position has the potential to sync up your timing because the ball has to travel a further distance, ergo, possibly allowing you to reach the peak of your backswing on your fourth step like it should be instead of your third.
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#60992 - 07/07/08 12:14 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 802
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: TheDemolitionMan
With that said it sounds to me that a lot of you have been busting on Sam's high backswing when it was his timing that is off.


For me, it's not that he has a high backswing, it's the fact that he is muscling the ball and then controlling it on the way down. If the laws of physics let it be possible to get to the top of his backswing that quickly or have a backswing that high without muscling the ball, then I wouldn't be worried about the height of the backswing at all. But, he does muscle the ball to get to the top of his backswing and his backswing is much higher than where it would be if it was a free armswing. That's all very easy to see by how quickly the ball gets to that point, it only takes 1 step of his approach. The reasoning behind telling him to try to lower his backswing is to get him to stop forcing the ball so much. So his timing is off because he is forcing the ball and that is seen from both how high the ball gets and how quickly it gets there.

Originally Posted By: TheDemolitionMan
Lastly, I still think you should try a higher ball position. It will allow the ball to travel longer in the swing cycle. It won't make your backswing any higher because you're almost completely vertical as is. Any higher and you'll be the only bowler that does front flips on the approach. All I'm saying is that a higher ball position has the potential to sync up your timing because the ball has to travel a further distance, ergo, possibly allowing you to reach the peak of your backswing on your fourth step like it should be instead of your third.


Even though this could help out the timing issue, he'd have to start out high enough to make up for 1 whole step in his approach, that would be a really high starting position. Plus, this does nothing to fix the issue of an armswing that is very muscled, which is why he has the timing problem in the first place. Take away the muscled swing and you take away the timing problem, 2 problems gone from 1 change.

Mark
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#60998 - 07/07/08 12:57 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Practised today a bit again, and when I really tried to feel what I was doing, I noticed that I actually DO slow down the armswing on the downswing, even though now my approach is different than on the videos.

Currently, I start the ball more outside, on the video it may be bit more infront of my stomach, but now the ball is completely lined with my shoulder. The first step is very slow and calm, nothing else moves except my foot and I move my weight a bit forward. The first step is also much smaller than on the video, second step very small and slow too, and now I start the pushaway same time as I start the second step. Also, the backswing reaches now about 10:30 when looked from the side.
I'm going to have another coaching session later on this week, and see what is the next thing to work on the approach.

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#60999 - 07/07/08 01:06 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Sam Virtuz]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
It's good to hear that you are adjusting and it's working out. It would be nice to see an updated video.
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Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.


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#61000 - 07/07/08 01:08 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Sounds like progress. Post a new video when you get a chance. Many times, what you feel and what actually happens can be very different.
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#61003 - 07/07/08 01:12 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Yep, gonna post when I happen to shoot something. Gonna try to get video tomorrow.

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#61004 - 07/07/08 01:18 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 802
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Sounds like some good changes, I'll have to make sure I check out the updated video too.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

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#61020 - 07/07/08 04:03 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Sam Virtuz]
AmpleSound Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 1225
A/S/L: 34/M/CO
Good to read about the progress, Sam. How was the feel, having the ball aligned with your arm? Hope it helped your accuracy :-).
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#61026 - 07/07/08 05:05 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: AmpleSound]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Well, obviously it felt a bit odd at first, but after a time it feels a bit more natural...

And some updating, I experimented around with hand weights again and filmed couple shots by trying to copy Jason Couch in few parts. He has the peak on the 4th step, as his steps are smaller than mine but yeah, thats not the main point. Soo, I made my pushaway even later, and do the first step as little slide like Jason, it feels a bit more comfortable atleast to me. So, now the "ball" is still on the backswing when I'm taking the 3rd step, and when the 4th step is about to hit the ground, the swing is on it's peak. I'm gonna do the same later pushaway when getting tomorrow on the lanes too, and see how it works out.


EDIT: A little thing to add; The stop at the peak of my swing is longer because my muscles are stretching up. It's like, that the muscle there stretches and stretches, but then it reaches the point where it can't stretch anymore and it starts going to the downswing.


Edited by Sam Virtuz (07/07/08 05:09 PM)

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#61030 - 07/07/08 05:39 PM Re: Few videos from todays practise [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Quote:

EDIT: A little thing to add; The stop at the peak of my swing is longer because my muscles are stretching up. It's like, that the muscle there stretches and stretches, but then it reaches the point where it can't stretch anymore and it starts going to the downswing.


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