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#60821 - 07/04/08 05:36 PM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Another question about this subject...

If you have a "properly" fitting ball, and everything is good, I couldn't see a way that you wouldn't have to apply even a tad bit pressure in order to stay in the ball... Because when you pushaway the ball, it's basically almost the same when you come down from your backswing and start performing your release, this would mean that the ball falls immediately off of your hand when you do the pushaway, if you wont apply pressure even little..

Atleast for me I feel like I have to apply a bit pressure on the thumbhole after pushaway, then relax thumb again on the upswing, and when getting down again I squeeze tad bit and then let go around the ankle..

Though my thumbhole is not yet properly drilled, gonna get that done tomorrow.

But anyway, the main thing, if I won't apply any pressure, I could imagine that the ball is going to leave my hand right after the pushaway? I'm pretty confused with this now..

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#60822 - 07/04/08 06:03 PM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
I'm not sure Jim lol. I just don't want to waste money on a product if I don't have to. I have some hada tape #3, and a couple samples of Ron C's Carpet, haven't tried either yet. I guess since I have those already there's no harm. But I'd really like to know, at what point should I accept it doesn't matter how far forward I go and I need another means of hanging onto the ball? Because the guy at K&K said there's a point where going too far forward will make me start squeezing more.


Edited by Amateur (07/04/08 06:03 PM)

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#60823 - 07/04/08 06:38 PM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
igonto Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 36
A/S/L: Twin Cities, MN
Amateur, I had a hard time believing it was as simple as a proper fit and a little tape, but that really should be the case unless your fit is way off. I had a gripping problem until I found a driller who was able tp diagnose my problem like it sounds like the K&K guy did for you.

I had a painful callus and some bad rubbing problems on the side of my thumb by the knuckle (a little lower from where yours was)because I was applying pressure with my thumb. After I had my thumb re- fit and had a little tape in there, I need to apply absolutely NO pressure and I no longer feel any pain.

Remember, sometimes the best solutions are the simplest.

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#60845 - 07/05/08 04:01 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: igonto]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Well, the K&K guys definitely put me a huge step in the right direction. As it is now, though, I'm not squeezing much less than I was before I changed anything, including my span. I could get away with gripping only with the base part of my thumb but that feels pretty weird. Sounds like I need a little more forward pitch, huh? I will say, even though I'm squeezing still, a properly drilled thumb hole won't rip my skin anymore(I figured out it was the thumb hole itself that ripped me really bad, not the pitch). However, the soreness that I have after 3-4 games still shouldn't be there right?

In case I didn't mention it already, my span in the beginning was 4 3/8. After getting it extremely short and having the K&K guy fix it, I'm now back to 4 3/8 with a little twist. My finger and thumb pitches are slightly different, and my dropped ring finger is applied to the span, making it 4 1/4.

Igonto, what is your span, thumb pitch, and thumb length?


Edited by Amateur (07/05/08 04:07 AM)

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#60848 - 07/05/08 08:52 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Amature, if you are afraid to try different things, then you are doomed, maybe bowling isn't the right sport for you. I don't know what sport is right for you, since you have to be willing to try new things at pretty much anything you do. I have told you repeatedly what to do, I am done with this thread, best of luck to you.

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#60925 - 07/06/08 04:11 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: CoachJim]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Amature, if you are afraid to try different things, then you are doomed, maybe bowling isn't the right sport for you. I don't know what sport is right for you, since you have to be willing to try new things at pretty much anything you do. I have told you repeatedly what to do, I am done with this thread, best of luck to you.


NEVER say something like that to someone. That's the worst thing someone could tell me. I wouldn't imagine a life without bowling. As for being afraid to try different things(for fit), I'm only hesitant now because even though I still get sore, the fact is it's the best feeling fit I've ever had.

Ron C's Carpet and Hada tape are available to me so I can give them a try. I'm guessing you suggest going more forward. Will it be different this time around now that my span has the dropped ring finger applied?

By the way, were you ever a driller? I'm curious how you know about fit issues so much.

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#60931 - 07/06/08 11:02 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:

NEVER say something like that to someone. That's the worst thing someone could tell me. I wouldn't imagine a life without bowling. As for being afraid to try different things(for fit), I'm only hesitant now because even though I still get sore, the fact is it's the best feeling fit I've ever had.


Then why do I have to keep telling you the same thing over and over for 14-15 pages? If you want my help at least do what I ask, I understand if you are hesitant about redrilling the ball, but when you are hesitant about wasting a piece of tape, then I don't know what to tell you. All of the tape in the world is available to you on line pro shops are only a click away and it will not cost an arm and a leg to buy tape if your shop doesn't have it.

Quote:

By the way, were you ever a driller? I'm curious how you know about fit issues so much.


I have been taught ball fit and layout by my ball driller who has been doing it for over 35 years, he also attends all of Mo Pinel's seminars, so I get the inside skinny on that too. I have become quite good at fitting peoples hands when I can see them and they are honest with me giving proper feed back, but when people tell me something then in reality they aren't doing what I ask them, then I don't know what to tell them any more.

Quote:
Ron C's Carpet and Hada tape are available to me so I can give them a try. I'm guessing you suggest going more forward. Will it be different this time around now that my span has the dropped ring finger applied?


I don't know what you mean by dropped ring finger, I thought your span was fit right, dropped ring finger indicates that the ring finger span is too short on purpose, call your ball driller at k&k and ask him, he drilled it and measured your hand. Tell him your hand is still slipping out of the ball and see what he says.

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#60932 - 07/06/08 11:31 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
J_w73 Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 1032
A/S/L: 37/M/Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Amateur
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Amature, if you are afraid to try different things, then you are doomed, maybe bowling isn't the right sport for you. I don't know what sport is right for you, since you have to be willing to try new things at pretty much anything you do. I have told you repeatedly what to do, I am done with this thread, best of luck to you.


NEVER say something like that to someone. That's the worst thing someone could tell me. I wouldn't imagine a life without bowling. As for being afraid to try different things(for fit), I'm only hesitant now because even though I still get sore, the fact is it's the best feeling fit I've ever had.

Ron C's Carpet and Hada tape are available to me so I can give them a try. I'm guessing you suggest going more forward. Will it be different this time around now that my span has the dropped ring finger applied?

By the way, were you ever a driller? I'm curious how you know about fit issues so much.



Amateur, Although fitting a ball does take some knowledge, it isn't rocket science.. You can find almost anything you need to know about the correct ball fit on the internet. These techniques work because they work for 99% of everyone in the world that wants to bowl. If you are having pain and rubbing after numerous fittings there is something wrong.. something different about your hand, your joints, your skin, the way you are gripping, the way you are releasing your ball. Bowling does involve some rubbing on your thumb. Maybe with the most perfect ideal fit you could have no rubbing on your thumb.. most bowlers I know have some sort of callous on their thumb.. a callous means rubbing. You need to talk to the people you bowl with.. maybe an old timer that is a real bowler and has some knowledge. Your local Pro Shop should be able to spot the problem in a second and fix it or start heading you in the right direction. If they can't they shouldn't be in business.. I hope you get your problem fixed.. If you are still rubbing, get some sand paper and open up the thumb on that side of your thumb.. open it larger than necessary.. and then put tape back in to perfect the fit.


Edited by J_w73 (07/06/08 11:31 AM)
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#60954 - 07/06/08 10:04 PM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: J_w73]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Jim, by dropped ring finger I mean that my ring finger is shorter than my middle finger, enough that my span for the ring finger needs to be shorter. This is a requirement of my hand and both my driller and the K&K guy say I definitely have a dropped ring finger. I will be contacting the guy at K&K pretty soon as I apparently need to change something. By the way, I want to apologize for being as difficult as I have been throughout this whole thing, and I means no disrespect towards you at all. As you could guess, I'm just a really stubborn person, but I shall be trying some more things in the near future.

J_w73, just so you and everyone else knows, the only serious pain and rubbing I get is from an ill-fitting thumb hole in which case I just need to open up the thumb hole in that area a bit. When that's the case my need to squeeze only makes it worse, but squeezing or not I still gotta get that rub spot out. With a good fitting thumb hole I still get sore though, and I do use tape in my thumb hole to make it snug.

Also, by callous do mean those "notches" people get in their thumbs? If so I agree, most bowlers have them. There's two bowlers around that I know don't have much of a difference between their two thumbs. You could hardly tell they bowl. But I have a wider thumb tiny callouses, not to mentioned you can still tell I've had ripped skin. If I never had to squeeze that might all be reduced down to just callouses and hardly any differences in thumb size.

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#60989 - 07/07/08 11:55 AM Re: Update on Ball Fit: Please Help [Re: Jay R.]
KingBlueBadger Offline
Junior

Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 29
A/S/L: 57mArkansas
Amateur, don't appologize. A sore thumb is the most frustrating problem I had. My thumb would get so sore I would actually dread putting it in the ball. I couldn't concentrate on my game. That is why I finally worked out the thumb I put in about a whileback. My thumb was swollen to double it's size and I had one huge bowling calluse. So did Charles Pipes. I came up with the thumb I wrote about for special problem thumbs bowlers were having excessive problems with. My thumb is back down to it's normal size. Charles Pipes went over to my style and now his thumb is almost as small as mine. Most every one said they didn't understand what I was trying to explain and the ones who did said it sounded like too much trouble. So I never offered any more help. If You had a ball set up with the thumb I told you a while back. Your thumb would be better by now. You don't use any tape with a ball I drill, I drill it to fit your had. When you pick your ball up, your ball clings to your hand. Then you slightly shake your hand the ball will drop off. You match your span and pitch to just snuggly cling to your hand and the slight vibration will let it slip right out. Also the drilling angle under on the thumb can be too much or too little and put pressure on your thumb joint and cause it to swell and get sore or if you don't have enough angle under cause the ball to slip off too quick. I went to about 20 or more drillers to try to alieviate this problem. I finally had em train me to drill, Bought a Pro Shop then spent the last 2 years experimenting with thumbs till I came up with one that works. But all the negative comments are un called for. Your thumb problem is frustrating and you don't need to be talked to like some have talked to you. There's nothing wrong with being hard headed. I kinda laughed about it. People need to get a bit better humor if they want to deal with the public. Amateur if there is any way I could drill one for ya and let ya try it. I wouldn't mind.. Send me your span and I'll try one of my oldies sitting around collecting dust and I'll send it to you and we'll see if it helps. [email protected] I'd like tohelp if ya wantme to try. Bowl good have fun, don't let em insult ya. Eddie
_________________________
I bowl with SASBA Senior All Star Bowling Assoc. SW And SE. I also like to deepsea fish and I raise Reg. Quarter Horses and build Hand made Saddles.

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