Sam I was just curious as to where you have the ball positioned at the start of your approach. Have you tried a higher ball position? It was just one of those random thoughts that were bouncing around in the back of my head. It might help.

Do you mean lower start position? Higher start position would equal a higher backswing.

No, a higher ball position because it would allow for him to have his/your comfortable high back swing. Instead of forcing the ball like Lefty is on him/you about (I don't see it Sam), gravity from the higher ball position would allow him/you to throw with his high back-swing, granted the back swing might be it a bit lower than he/you is used to but it sounds like it might work (in my opinion).

As you could see, I have my arm on a straight line with my shoulder, but the balls starting bosition is maybe more nearer to my stomach, since I hold the ball so that I got most of the weight on right hand, and my left hand is fully on the side of the ball. But once I do the pushaway, I do it so that my left hand will go under the ball. But my coach guided me to still have it bit more to outside, and I believe hes right with that being better.



After reading a bit and experimenting around with some hand weights (yeah I practise my approach with a handweight at home), I felt how I do the "whipping" kind of thing as Ron C describes on his article. It's more about the shoulder than spine, but theres still that motion which I feel. In my opinion though, It's not really forcing the ball

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip41_files/tip41.htm



But yeah anyways, my current approach has bit different timing and I don't have as high backswing as before. Just pointing some things out.

I'm aware of that technique, but that is still not going to get it as high as you have it. You start the ball at your waist and push it up close to your shoulder height. A natural swing will get the ball no higher than shoulder level on the back swing. Call that position 0 degrees. Tipping forward the way you are should get the ball at most to about 45 degrees. You're at 90. Physics says the additional movemet of the ball has to come from enegry applied from somewhere, and that somewhere is your muscles either pulling the ball down after the pushaway or pulling it up the backswing.

To add to Ron Cliftons comment about waiting on the ball to decend, because your ball is so high, it will take a lot longer to decend on it's own. It's to high. If you don't want to listen to the fact that you're causing it to go to high and it's bad for it to go that high, so be it. It's the last time I'll comment on it. I've never seen a decent bowler get the ball that high, and there's a good reason for it.

Here is what I think.

When you open your shoulders, you are doing it yourself as opposed to allowing the ball to swing and open the shoulders for you. As you rotate your shoulder back it exerts energy down your arm and pulls the ball back into your backswing.

This is assuming that you are not muscling the swing in other areas I just can't pick up on in the videos. Which I still think you are doing by pulling down after your push away.

That is my last comment on the subject as well. Like lefty said, its physics and your ball cannot get higher than where it started unless you exert force on it. Your bend at the waist is not parallel to the floor so getting the ball that high can only come from you making it go there.

The brief stop is infinitesimally small. It is the point where gravity's negative acceleration finally overtakes the momentum that was generated on your balls way down. You should not be able to count to even a half a second between when the ball stops rising and when the ball starts falling. If you can, you are (again) muscling it.

Anyways. I can do the same high swing as Sam here.

The ball should fall on it own and swing itself. The only way you can swing the ball that high and above the shoulder would be by pulling the ball with an open hand and relax thumb. Also, at the same time.. have a pause in your power step.

Myself. I have long arms and big hand. I am 6'1 and I can get low to the line. Before doing all these bowling clinics to improve myself and watching myself on video. I never knew how much I was controlling the swing and how I was forcing the ball back into the air.

Over time, I can accept the fact with myself that you do not need to have a big swing to get the ball down the lane. Its all in your head and what you think you need to do.

Nowadays.. with a relax swing and 9-12 rings of oil on my ball. The reaction on the ball is so impressing to watch than I get amazed on how much that ball is hooking when it hit dry.

Anyways, what I told in bowling school as I like to refer it too. The ball should never exceed higher than your head in your backswing. If it is. You are muscling it.

Also should note that doing weight can be a factor if you're pulling back. Your brain will register that and you wouldn't know if you were or not. Just a thought.

I don't wanna rain on your parade here. But.. have you seen Jason Couch bowl?

No, I really wasn't concerned with wehre the ball was horizontally, although I do prefer to have as much of the ball's weight on the non swing arm as possible while simaltaniously having the ball and swing arm aligned and maybe against the hip.

I was just curious as to whether or not you've tried starting the ball anywhere higher than your waist say up around your shoulder.