So yeah, shot couple videos...

I changed the steps a bit ; 2 first steps slower,try to step second step more infront of the other foot instead of crossing over, earlier pushaway, and now I try to step the third step as longer and more to the right. Before I have kinda "rotated" inside on the 3rd step, and stepped it almost way too much to the left, so yeah I believe this fixed a little atleast.
Hmm... And I'm strugling with throwing on angles, like converting the corner pins, 7 and 10. But takes just the time to practise on them too.





Here's 2 shots taken from the side;



Still uploading one more, another normal vid, and then I shot one where I was just filming the feet.

Maximum edit time passed......

Anyways heres the 4th video;

Well, I am no expert or coach but I can say you have a clean finish but I am not sure if you are forcing that high backswing.

There seems to be a little inconsistantcy in your footwork and timing. Sometimes both are aligned right and it looks smooth and you throw/roll a good ball. But other times it looks like around the point where your backswing is getting to its highest point, its like you freeze frame... and then speed back up again. Another thing that might help is not bending over so much but that would mean you would have to lower your backswing. I don't think that's a problem it just might help.

Demo if you look at the video when he does the pause thing, he is taking two steps when the ball is at the top of the back swing, if you back it up you will see that he is starting the ball on his first step and he takes 5 steps and should start the ball on or after the second step starts. Sam has long arms so he might want to start the ball at the same time as the second step.

I talked to him in chat and he has seen a personal coach that is why I haven't responded to this one until now.

Update on the approach...

My coach told me to start it only after when the first step hits the ground, till then I just move, nothing else moves, I don't bend forward or anything, just keep back straight and take my weight a bit forward, then start the swing on a smoother circle, now you could see that I kinda push it almost forward and bit up, and then let the ball drop. I should now try to have the movement on the pushaway smaller, not so far to the forward, instead trying to have abit more up, and on a more smoother circle, not that angular as it is now. And then the main thing is then again on trying to have my back straight, and not to start falling over on either way... And the steps shall be corrected a bit later, currently I have better sized 2 first steps, pretty small ones, but I can't seem to get enough lenght on the 3rd step..

But yeah, while on the coaching session I had few veery good approaches, atleast the coach said them as being perfect, and my backswing was the straightest he has ever seen. I didn't go today practising because I'm being a bit sore from yesterday (7 hours of practise!) Gonna work on my approach on saturday though, and try to pay attention to the things that the coach had pointed out.

The only part where I "force" the swing is when I push it out with my right arm, and when the swing starts getting nearer to the bottom, I try to keep it near my body.

But the key to getting it up there is with opening up your shoulders, as you see while its up there my balance arm is more towards the ground instead of being on the side, and the body is turned a bit more out instead of being towards the lane. And when getting nearer the foul line I start bringing the balance arm back to the side, and maybe up a little too.

Also, if you look very closely, you can see that my hand is a bit more on the right side of the ball which means that I turn my wrist out a bit too while being on the backswing, it helps on "unlocking" the muscles too. And while doing this, I believe it helps when I start on learning how to hook the ball, since my wrist will be more "inside" of the ball.

But yeah, I will not try hooking untill I got all the basic mechanics down and can consistently repeat my shot.

I like your footwork much better now, I still don't like the mammoth backswing but we have been through that a dozen times already. Keep working at it.

You might want to consider not bringing your backswing up quite so high.

Why do you think so?

Personally, I don't think the high backswing is a problem. I do see what Coach Jim is saying though. Overall it does look a whole lot better.

Can you tell me exactly how you throw at the corner spares and any other spares you are having trouble with? You are throwing a straight ball at them, correct?

Yes, straight ball.

I'm having mostly troubles with the steps, because theyre just way different from when I try to just do the normal approach shooting straight. And IMO without depending on what kind of shot you're doing your approach should be exactly the same.

But I guess I'll just have to learn first to be absolutely consistant with shooting straight before I attempt at other things.


EDIT: Youtube seems always to speed up a bit the videos, makes myself look like I'm rushing on the approach

Do you like to throw across the lane or along the gutter for your 7 and 10 pins? And do you throw the ball harder, as hard as, or softer than your strike ball?

I would have to agree with you about Youtube. I watched the videos again and that looks like the culprit that keeps throwing me off.

Across the lane. You should see it clearly on my 4th video. And also, I prefer to not throw any harder on spares, untill I have to bounce some pins from the walls.

I would suggest trying to line up your ball and your swing arm with the pin or pins. You could also try throwing the ball a bit softer and maybe the angle at which you travel to throw the ball, you could make that straighter.

I'm fully lined up along with my elbow and the ball to the pins I'm rolling at, always. It's more about the steps ATM, I think though.

Then maybe try to keep yourself walking at a straighter angle. Also I forgot to ask if you were missing left, right or both?
And do you have a target area that you try to throw the ball in? And where do you stand?
Myself I stand on the filler board for my ten pin, 2 boards right of that for the 6-10 and another 1/2 a board for the six pin, and I try to roll the ball in between the 20 and the 15 boards and I have pretty good success.

When throwing in angles, my bad habits come in play with the steps and overall approach.

And for 7 pins, I stand on about 37-38 board(Place looked from the outerside of left foot), and throw about through boards 22-24 at the place where arrows are. 10 Pins about the exact opposite of the 7 pin.

And for every other conversions I roll straight, for example if I left the 1 pin, I'd stand on about 23 and half board , and aim straight over the center arrow.

My bad habits come out too. I open up my shoulder a lot, I chicken wing, grasp the ball and hang on to it too long. It really is bad when you are throwing a ten pin and you let it go and it rolls right where the head pin should be. You have to eliminate the habits one at a time and go from there. I find that I'm focused more when I'm picking up spares especially the ten and seven pins then I am on the strike ball.

The target area in my opinion is a good thing to have because it allows a reference point for you to mess around with.

I know it isn't ment for straight balls but if you can find a consistent spot to get strikes, you can use the 3,6,9 technique. It is possible, but I haven't used it in a while so don't exactly remember where the targets are to throw the ball. But you should be okay with lining your swing arm up with the pin.

Overall it sounds like you're on the right Track and all you need to do is eliminate one habit after another until you get it. I'd say maybe practice your footwork with and without a ball until it feels right. And maybe straighten up the angles a little I still think that might help.

Well Sam.

Just reading what you wrote and Coach Jim and TDM. I will say since I see a new bowler in you and all that positive attitude. I guess you will have an advance later on with that smooth release and once you learn to hook the ball to your liking. All the right-hand bowlers will be pissed.

Why? You got all the oil. LOL

Just kidding. Keep working at it and 7 hours is nut. Your body need a break to re-train and understand this new technique to get rid of the old technique that you apply when you first started.

Trust me man. Just do a few hours at a time and just work on what you want to work on. Not everything at once. Give it time and you will be proud later on with the rewards.

Hmm... Well yeah, lately I have been trying to concentrate maybe on 3-4 things on each day that I have been up to the lanes, but I gotta start maybe concentrating fully on just one thing for full 2-3 hours.

Next thing that I'm going to do tomorrow is get my thumb hole drilled correct(it's just way too big atm), and get switch grips installed to them.

And by the way if you didn't know, I was still right handed like 2-3 weeks ago...

But I believe I'm gonna get the approach going even smoother than what I had right handed, because I'm ambidextrous(if that was the right term).

Even two or three hours of practice, especially if you aren't resting much is too long. You get fatigued , maybe mentally exhausted as well and you undo things you are working on. A shorter but more focused practice will do more and yield better results than a marathon session. Two hours if you are taking breaks between frames to reflect and not speed bowling will work. An hour could be effective. Yes you need hundreds if not thousands of repetitions to form "muscle memory" but if you try to do it all in one day you will form bad habits.

Also like its been mentioned before, correct one thing at a time before you move to the next one. Decided what you think is most important, if its your foot work start with that, if its your swing start there. For example, in my own game my push away/swing is the biggest issue, in my opinion, as it effects almost everything else in my approach and my accuracy.

Yeah, it's not straight bowling all the time, I have 5-8 minute breaks there and there, drink water (always doing that, I got water bottle always with me) and if I haven't ate before I left to the lanes I'm going to eat about after 2½/3 hours of practise.

Because your arm is straight up in the air. That's way to high, and it doesn't get that high naturally. You're pulling the ball (i.e. forcing it) that high.

Here's a picture to show you how high your arm gets. You're forcing it that high. On top of that, your timing is way out of wack because of this. This is your 3rd step and The ball is already at the top of your backswing.

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If you're not forcing the swing then gravity must play by a different rule in Finland because it's physically impossible for your backswing to go that high without you forcing it.

Yes, only part where I'm forcing it is at the pushaway. Happy now?

Currently my swing may be a bit lower because I have changed my approach a bit and gotta work on different timing and other things.

The pushaway isn't going to make it go that high. You are either pulling it down or pulling it up the backswing. That's the only way you're going to end up with your arm pointing straight up in the air. You may not think you're doing it, but that's what's happening.

Sam,

I told you before it has nothing to do with my happiness, or anybody else on here for that matter. We are all trying to point you in the right direction and you just don't want to hear it.

You should be picking up on the common theme here about your backswing. I have told you a dozen times myself in chat and on here. Many of the top coaches here have said the same thing. You need to quit rationalizing all the reasons its that high, and admit to yourself that maybe it is incorrect.

I am as stubborn as anybody myself, but sometimes you just have to admit you are wrong and try to make a change.

Sam I was just curious as to where you have the ball positioned at the start of your approach. Have you tried a higher ball position? It was just one of those random thoughts that were bouncing around in the back of my head. It might help.

Do you mean lower start position? Higher start position would equal a higher backswing.

No, a higher ball position because it would allow for him to have his/your comfortable high back swing. Instead of forcing the ball like Lefty is on him/you about (I don't see it Sam), gravity from the higher ball position would allow him/you to throw with his high back-swing, granted the back swing might be it a bit lower than he/you is used to but it sounds like it might work (in my opinion).

As you could see, I have my arm on a straight line with my shoulder, but the balls starting bosition is maybe more nearer to my stomach, since I hold the ball so that I got most of the weight on right hand, and my left hand is fully on the side of the ball. But once I do the pushaway, I do it so that my left hand will go under the ball. But my coach guided me to still have it bit more to outside, and I believe hes right with that being better.



After reading a bit and experimenting around with some hand weights (yeah I practise my approach with a handweight at home), I felt how I do the "whipping" kind of thing as Ron C describes on his article. It's more about the shoulder than spine, but theres still that motion which I feel. In my opinion though, It's not really forcing the ball

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip41_files/tip41.htm



But yeah anyways, my current approach has bit different timing and I don't have as high backswing as before. Just pointing some things out.

I'm aware of that technique, but that is still not going to get it as high as you have it. You start the ball at your waist and push it up close to your shoulder height. A natural swing will get the ball no higher than shoulder level on the back swing. Call that position 0 degrees. Tipping forward the way you are should get the ball at most to about 45 degrees. You're at 90. Physics says the additional movemet of the ball has to come from enegry applied from somewhere, and that somewhere is your muscles either pulling the ball down after the pushaway or pulling it up the backswing.

To add to Ron Cliftons comment about waiting on the ball to decend, because your ball is so high, it will take a lot longer to decend on it's own. It's to high. If you don't want to listen to the fact that you're causing it to go to high and it's bad for it to go that high, so be it. It's the last time I'll comment on it. I've never seen a decent bowler get the ball that high, and there's a good reason for it.

Here is what I think.

When you open your shoulders, you are doing it yourself as opposed to allowing the ball to swing and open the shoulders for you. As you rotate your shoulder back it exerts energy down your arm and pulls the ball back into your backswing.

This is assuming that you are not muscling the swing in other areas I just can't pick up on in the videos. Which I still think you are doing by pulling down after your push away.

That is my last comment on the subject as well. Like lefty said, its physics and your ball cannot get higher than where it started unless you exert force on it. Your bend at the waist is not parallel to the floor so getting the ball that high can only come from you making it go there.

The brief stop is infinitesimally small. It is the point where gravity's negative acceleration finally overtakes the momentum that was generated on your balls way down. You should not be able to count to even a half a second between when the ball stops rising and when the ball starts falling. If you can, you are (again) muscling it.

Anyways. I can do the same high swing as Sam here.

The ball should fall on it own and swing itself. The only way you can swing the ball that high and above the shoulder would be by pulling the ball with an open hand and relax thumb. Also, at the same time.. have a pause in your power step.

Myself. I have long arms and big hand. I am 6'1 and I can get low to the line. Before doing all these bowling clinics to improve myself and watching myself on video. I never knew how much I was controlling the swing and how I was forcing the ball back into the air.

Over time, I can accept the fact with myself that you do not need to have a big swing to get the ball down the lane. Its all in your head and what you think you need to do.

Nowadays.. with a relax swing and 9-12 rings of oil on my ball. The reaction on the ball is so impressing to watch than I get amazed on how much that ball is hooking when it hit dry.

Anyways, what I told in bowling school as I like to refer it too. The ball should never exceed higher than your head in your backswing. If it is. You are muscling it.

Also should note that doing weight can be a factor if you're pulling back. Your brain will register that and you wouldn't know if you were or not. Just a thought.

I don't wanna rain on your parade here. But.. have you seen Jason Couch bowl?

No, I really wasn't concerned with wehre the ball was horizontally, although I do prefer to have as much of the ball's weight on the non swing arm as possible while simaltaniously having the ball and swing arm aligned and maybe against the hip.

I was just curious as to whether or not you've tried starting the ball anywhere higher than your waist say up around your shoulder.

Quite a big difference between Jason Couch and Sam. I was going back through this thread and something that Lefty posted caught my eye.



Here is a picture of Jason Couch at the top of his backswing.



Notice that Couch is just about to put his right foot down to slide when he is at the top of his backswing. If you look at the picture of Sam, he still needs to take his 4th step and then slide.

Both Sam and Jason Couch (at least in the video of the 2007 Motel 6 Classic) use 5 step approaches. From watching videos of both Sam and Couch, they both start their pushaways at around the same point, the second step. Jason Couch doesn't reach the highest point of his backswing until he get to his fourth step, where Sam gets there at his third step. Then, Couch just has his slide step for the ball to come down to his release point, meanwhile Sam has 2 steps during which his ball has to come down from the top of his backswing to the release.

Let's assume that Jason Couch has a very free armswing (I feel that's a safe assumption, you don't do what he's done without one). How can Sam get his ball to the top of his backswing in 1 step without forcing it? How can Sam take 2 steps to get from the top of his backswing to his release point without controlling it on the way down?

You can have a high backswing, but there's a right way to do it and and wrong way to do it. The right way takes a long time to learn and it is not what someone who is trying to learn the basic mechanics of the approach should be doing.

Mark

Actually Jason muscles the ball quite a bit. I don't think you'd ever teach someone to throw the ball the way he does. He's been very successful with how he throws the ball but there's not many people who'd be better off with what he does. The same goes for Walter Ray. No one should try and execute the way either of these guys do. They are exceptions to the rule.

And do comment on the backswing of Couch, he still isn't as high as Sam is and he's also more bent over which will cause the ball to go higher. Tilting forward will cause the higher back swing. Look at how much Jason is tilted forward compared to Sam. Then also notice that Jason's arm is not directly up in the air.

I also noticed that Couch's backswing was slightly lower and the larger tilt. I was looking a bit more at the timing issues that are present.

Also, you are right, upon review, Couch does muscle it a good amount, no way to get the backswing that high in the time period it takes to get there. Even so, the amount that Couch muscles it must be small in comparison.

Mark

Also (a lot of those), if you compare the pause at the top of Jason Couch's swing with the pause at the top of Sam's, you will see a vast difference. Same with the speed of the ball on the way down. Sam holds the ball back - take a huge backswing then slow it down on the way down? Why?

Okay first of all there is no one way to do things in bowling. With that said it sounds to me that a lot of you have been busting on Sam's high backswing when it was his timing that is off.

I would have to agree that Sam needs to reach the peak of his backswing on his 4th step instead of his 3rd step (kind of what I noticed all along, but didin't know what I was noticing. I guess that's what comes with being a novice).

Sam,
I think Couch would be a good reference for you because his style is similar to yours plus he's a lefty.

Lastly, I still think you should try a higher ball position. It will allow the ball to travel longer in the swing cycle. It won't make your backswing any higher because you're almost completely vertical as is. Any higher and you'll be the only bowler that does front flips on the approach. All I'm saying is that a higher ball position has the potential to sync up your timing because the ball has to travel a further distance, ergo, possibly allowing you to reach the peak of your backswing on your fourth step like it should be instead of your third.