#59990 - 06/25/0803:59 PMPBA Announces the 50 Greatest Players
General Pounder
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PBA Announces the 50 Greatest Players in Association’s History Seattle, WA - 6/25/2008
Lead by prolific champions who dominated the sport through several eras including Dick Weber (50s-60s), Earl Anthony (70s-80s) and Walter Ray Williams Jr. (90s-today), the Professional Bowlers Association (PBA) has released a list of the “50 Greatest Players in PBA History.”
The 50th Anniversary season of the Denny’s PBA Tour is set to begin in October. The 50 Greatest Players will be introduced as part of a gala celebration for the golden anniversary of the PBA Tour at the Tournament of Champions, January 19-25, at Red Rock Lanes in Las Vegas.
The 50 Greatest, which also includes such iconic bowling stars as Don Carter, Mark Roth and Pete Weber (full list below), were selected from an original list of 100 by an esteemed committee of 34 individuals, comprised of members of the media, Bowling Industry and coaches. Later this summer, the committee will have the unenviable task of ranking these great players 1 – 50.
The final rankings will be revealed throughout the 20-week PBA season during the ESPN Sunday afternoon telecasts from October-April, culminating with the announcement of the greatest player in PBA history.
"Since its inception the Denny’s PBA Tour has been defined by great players,” said Denny’s PBA Tour CEO and Commissioner Fred Schreyer. “As we head into our 50th year we look forward to a season-long celebration that we know will evoke great memories from the past while simultaneously creating lasting impressions for the future."
Fans will have the opportunity to rank their top 15 bowlers on the PBA’s official website, www.pba.com. Should a fan’s top 15 bowlers match the committee’s top 15 in exact order, they will be entered into a drawing to win a framed 50th Anniversary lithograph.
In addition to the retrospectives featured on the ESPN telecasts, the PBA’s online video service, Xtra Frame, will feature special interviews and video clips of the 50 Greatest Bowlers throughout the season.
50 Greatest Players in PBA History (alphabetical order)
Allen, Bill Allen, Patrick Anthony, Earl Asher, Barry Aulby, Mike Baker, Tom Ballard Jr., Del Barnes, Chris Berardi, Joe Bohn III, Parker Burton, Nelson Carter, Don Cook, Steve Couch, Jason Davis, Dave Dickinson, Gary Duke, Norm Durbin, Mike Ferraro, Dave Godman, Jim Guenther, John Hardwick, Billy Holman, Marshall Hudson, Tommy Husted, Dave Johnson, Don Jones, Tommy Kent, Doug Koivuniemi, Mika Laub, Larry McGrath, Mike Monacelli, Amleto Ozio, David Pappas, George Pedersen, Randy Petraglia, Johnny Ritger, Dick Roth, Mark Salvino, Carmen Smith, Harry Soutar, Dave Stefanich, Jim Strampe, Bob Voss, Brian Webb, Wayne Weber, Dick Weber, Pete Williams Jr., Walter Ray Wiseman, Danny Zahn, Wayne
I always have issues with the Greatest of All Time lists in any sport. How can you compare one era with the others when the game is different for each one including technology, techniques and access to knowledge just to name a few differences? How would the modern bowlers like Chris Barnes, Tommy Jones, Danny Wiseman and Jason Couch have faired back in the 50 and 60s versus Dick Weber in his prime, or vice-versa? How do you compare someone that was/is on Tour for 25+ or 30+ years with someone that is barely 30 years old or just over it? What do you use to quantify who belongs on an All Time list, and then where each belongs on it? How do you compare someone with a 25+ year career with someone that has been on Tour for 10-15 years?
I understand the reasoning behind it, its to celebrate 50 years of the PBA, and there are some that belong on a Great Player list that they do have listed, including the Webers both Dick and Pete, Walter Ray Williams, Earl Anthony and several others, plus several that weren't listed. Guys that had a long successful career and did great things for the sport. To try to rank them and say this one is better than that one, and these 50 are the best ever is thoroughly asinine though.
I find this true in all sports that people attempt this and then its still mainly subjective. I guess its just a pet peeve of mine.
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cgeorg
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I can't remember who it was for the life of me, but it was someone like Carmen Salvino, that said to... Mike DeVaney? "You guys on tour now are better than we ever dreamed of being. And the people that come up behind you will be better still."
It's in an Xtra Frame 20 question interview.
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#60090 - 06/26/0809:29 AMRe: PBA Announces the 50 Greatest Players
[Re: General Pounder]
Dennis Michael
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You really can't compare a bowler from the 60's to a bowler of today. That makes no sense. but, there has to be some balance within each time period. Take this in decade increments. There should be 3-4 from each. Not 1 from 1960 and 15 from 1990. Look at their achievements in their own time. Buzz Fazio had the highest average for 2 consecutive years of all Pro bowlers. Who else has done that?
Babe Ruth was great in 1920, Aaron in 1960, and maybe Bonds today. But, you can't say one was better than the other.
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General Pounder
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They did the same thing with Basketball when they did their 50 greatest. Also with Baseball and their top 100. Hard to compare eras. With the way people train today, the technology, and all the research that has gone into everything, players in all sports have a HUGE advantage over the people 40+ years ago. Players are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and more injury prone. Think about pitchers in baseball. Years ago, if you started a game, you finished it. Period. There wasn't middle relief guys or closers. Roger Clemens has 118 career complete games. The record is 749 by Ty Cobb. The last time a pitcher had more than 10 complete games in a season was 1999 by Randy Johnson with 12. The record is 75 by Will White in 1879. 75 complete games is 675 innings for the year (he had 680 total for that year). 250 innings or so is a lot by today's standards.
You put one of those guys in the ML today, how would he do? Who knows. You put one of today's pitchers back then how would they do? Again, you don't know. Same with bowling. You can't compare a guy who threw a rubber ball with 1 finger hole and a thumb hole to TJ tearing the cover off of a reactive ball.
#60114 - 06/26/0811:44 AMRe: PBA Announces the 50 Greatest Players
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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My point was that now days, guys are different. Athletes now have much more rigorous training techniques to get them bigger, stronger, faster. Problem is that the players now are more brittle because of all of that. Athletes years ago were not as big and couldn't throw as hard but, they were also much healthier. Roger Clemens pitching 100 years ago. Could he go in and strike out everyone in a game? Probably. Could be pitch every 3 games like they used to? No. Could Ty Cobb pitch today and be successful? Maybe. But, he could pitch 3 times as many innings as anyone else. With having middle relief guys and closers, the game has evolved where players don't need to pitch 600+ innings in a year. Just like bowling has evolved. Year ago, you really had to work to get the ball to hook. Now, you just pitch it on the lane and it hooks (i.e. hook in a box).
Today's pro athletes are different than those from 30-40+ years ago. The reason is they make enough to have the whole year to get and stay in shape during the off season for the season, even some of the lesser known reserves. Thirty years ago even some of the top players in a sport had to take on real jobs in the off season in order to live. Going even further back they had to have jobs during the season as well. That alone is a big difference. Add in technology both in the actual game and in training and a dozen other factors, including length of seasons, certain rule changes and so on it makes it impossible to compare.
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#60150 - 06/26/0804:13 PMRe: PBA Announces the 50 Greatest Players
[Re: General Pounder]
Dennis Michael
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Originally Posted By: General Pounder
Could Ty Cobb pitch today and be successful? Maybe.
Well, I have to say no to this question. I gave you a chance to fix this, but you repeated it. Ty Cobb was an outfielder with the Tigers and Athletics. He didn't pitch. I think you mean Cy Young.
Otherwise, we agree.
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