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#59277 - 06/14/08 04:34 PM Part of my practise today
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Lately I've been experimenting practising on either side of the lane, right near the gutter in order to get things straight. And been coming to conclusion, that shooting straight at 6 and 10 pins works better, than shooting at 4 and 7.

Also, every now then I might face small problems with the thumb hole either stucking a bit,(that's mostly on 4-6 first shots when I start the practise session)or the ball falling a bit too early.

And I think I might have to move a bit forward on the start of approach, maybe to the middle of the dots which are the most furthest away, and the ones which are after the very first set of dots. Just because I'm still away from the foul line too much when releasing the ball..

Now I'm using the most furthest dots, and that had worked fine when I was righty, but I don't know if it's now just about the timing/maybe getting the 3rd step longer and trying to get a longer slide(?)


Pointers/comments/advice are welcome and highly appreciated as always.

- And just as a side note, all of my balls are drilled for my left hand now.


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#59297 - 06/15/08 03:11 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
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Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 585
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I know what you mean. I've thrown a straight ball at the 6,10, the 10, the 4,7, and the 7 and I find it much harder to hit the 4,7 and the singel 7 than the right side (mind you I'm a righty). I think it has something to do with the subconsious and the mental game as well as muscle memory. I think you have to relearn how to not try to walk across the lanes at the pins, if that makes any sense. I know that you don't in the video but do you know what I mean. It is easier ot walk straighter and throw straighter down the gutter on the throwing arm side becasue there is no real benefit for wlaking or throwing at an angle.

Me personally, I don't really like throwing along the gutter because there is less room, but that's me, to each their own.

Also by the looks of the video, there are a couple of times where your slide foot turns sideways. Also the bad balls that you threw look to me like you stopped and started in your approach. What I mean is that you reached a point in your approach stopped or paused and then went, "oh [censored] I need to keep going" and sped up. That type of speed change can hurt your game because timing is different every time. By the looks of it though you have it under control for the most part, I think it's really just adjusting to throwing as a lefty.

I hope this helps. I really don't throw a straight ball at my spares unless there is an extremely heavy volume of oil.


Edited by TheDemolitionMan (06/15/08 03:12 AM)
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I may be a noob, but I don't play like one.

High game: 279
High series:655

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#59312 - 06/15/08 09:16 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
First of all, when I'm practising I'm going to use my spare ball all the time. Unless I'm trying to work on pocket hits/reading the lanes or something like that, but when I'm just working on my approach I see no point of using strike ball and therefore making it's age shorter. And IMO, I'd save the use of strike ball to competitions etc. And because I will be throwing my spare ball straight, it doesnt matter how much oil it has taken in, it will go always straight. So yeahh, thats off it.


I'm practising playing near the gutter, so that I'm able to practise on straighter approach. If I drift, I'm going to end up in the gutter. And I'm going to practise getting things straight until it's on my muscle memory, and by then I will attempt throwing at angles, and see if I can maintain the straighter approach.

And the video also got somehow a bit sped up in points, so it's faster than It's meant to be.

I don't quite get what you mean with the 3rd part of your comment.. Could you make it a bit more simplier, thanks? nut

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#59315 - 06/15/08 09:28 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1884
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Sam, it looks like you are getting the ball closer to your ankle at the release, you still have no idea where the ball is going once it leaves your hand. It looks like you are over swinging the ball quite a bit which is causing your arm to loop in and out which causes the ball to go all over the place.

Since you are trying to learn to throw the ball straight, there is more to that than just rotation, you also need to have direction to the shot. Try playing straight up the one board and pick the 7 out of the rack, in order to do this you are going to have to learn to just let the ball swing your arm without forcing it. Start the ball at your target and just let it swing the arm like a dead arm without pulling or pushing it.

After you have been able to throw the ball straight up the boards consistently try to see how much turn you need to get the ball to hook to the pocket.

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#59317 - 06/15/08 09:46 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: CoachJim]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Alright, thanks Jim.

Anything else to work on/pay attention to on the approach itself?

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#59322 - 06/15/08 11:55 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
desertdog71 Online   content
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
You are starting your ball near your waist however your backswing ends up above your head. This is only accomplished by pulling it up there. There is also a pause at the top of your backswing which allows for the armswing to get off course. I would suggest a lower backswing that doesn't pause at the top so long. This will help you keep the ball moving along its intended path.

I think you would be a perfect candidate for a 1 step approach to work on the basic mechanics of your swing, and add the steps later. Remember ball speed is generated with your feet, and not the arm.

Try standing 1.5 steps before the foul line. Do your push away and let the ball swing freely. At the top of your backswing step into your slide and release the ball near your ankle with a nice follow through towards and through your target.

After you Master that the first 3 steps will actually come fairly easy for you. Its funny but your feet will naturally want to stay in rythym with your ball and armswing.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#59324 - 06/15/08 12:25 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: desertdog71]
infernocal Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1578
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Ball speed is generated by the feet and the arm swing. In a free armswing, starting the ball higher in the stance and allowing it to swing by itself through the backswing allows the ball to get higher at the top of the swing and generates more speed on the forward swing.

In either case Sam's swing isn't very loose but very controlled.
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#59325 - 06/15/08 12:34 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: desertdog71]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Hmm... Could be.

One of the coaches(the one who bowled first 20 years with right and 5 year with lefty later on)had told me, that the ball actually should stay for a short period up on the swing without moving, and then it just drops to the downswing on it's own time. If I wanted the kind of swing, which reaches the peak of it and then almost immediately goes on the downsing, for that kind of swing I would need to muscle the ball to start the downswing before it's supposed to. So I'm just trying to let it drop down to the swing on it's own, and it feels that way more natural, atleast to me.

And I'm going to try on practising that 1-step approach and see how it works for me.

And first 3 steps? Don't you mean first 4? nut

Anyways, thanks for taking your time on looking at my approach and giving tips, DD.

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#59326 - 06/15/08 12:37 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: infernocal]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Oh. So do you suggest trying on having the starting point of the ball maybe a bit higher than I have now?

I'm currently having it maybe a tad bit lower than my waist.

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#59328 - 06/15/08 12:39 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
desertdog71 Online   content
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
3-4 whatever works for you. I use a 4 step approach so that is why I said 3, My mistake.

My biggest point though was that its basic physics, when you start the ball in motion at waist level it will not go higher than that on the backswing without either forward tilt, or you pulling it back there. I don't think your tilt is enough to justify the height of the backswing. I may be wrong though, it seems I have been a lot lately.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#59330 - 06/15/08 12:46 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: desertdog71]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
I open my shoulders by bringing the balance arm a bit more forward and down. And also tilt a bit.

But after watching more of my vid I think I may pull it up a bit from shoulder though.

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#59331 - 06/15/08 12:51 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1578
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
I would suggest not pulling the ball up in the backswing. Like DD said, the only way to get it that high from starting at your waist or even lower us muscling it up there. A completely free armswing is like a playground swing. If you were to hold it 6 feet off the ground with the chain/rope taut and just release it to swing on its own it won't go much higher if at all than 6 feet at the height of its first forward swing.

As for your forward swing, you might be letting it begin to let it fall from that hang, but then you let your arm take back over to try to control the swing and where the ball goes. You could actually be holding the ball up there yourself. Now if the ball is swinging your arm(free armswing) there is nothing wrong with a second or so the ball being weightless at the top of the back swing, but only if its doing it by itself with no help from you. This happens because the ball has to stop briefly before it can change direction on its own with no help from you other than your shoulder being the pivot for the swing, and still not muscle should be used. I'm guilty of some of the same mistakes myself and need to work on it, so I know what its like.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763
2007-2008 Winter Season
HG:279
HS:666

Taking a break during the 2008 Summer and 2008-2009 Winter.

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#59332 - 06/15/08 01:20 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: infernocal]
desertdog71 Online   content
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
My arm would twist right off my shoulder if I tried to get the ball that high in my backswing. laugh

I wish mine was a bit higher myself, but I feel more under control starting it below my waist and keeping it low.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#59335 - 06/15/08 01:33 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: desertdog71]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
It's just all about opening your shoulders, and also turning you'r wrist out, while getting on the backswing. You can try it yourself right now, first trying to get the hand up there, keeping it straight, and then next turn your wrist out as the ball was on it, and then try again. It should be easier that way.

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#59340 - 06/15/08 01:58 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Regional Pro Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 585
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
If it's the video camera then nevermind the third part of my comment. If it's not, it just looked to me like you started, stopped for a friction of a second, and then started again, but that's just me. Then again it could be that I'm not used to seeing a backswing that high, seeing how where I bowl there aren't that many people who throw like that and I myself do not as well, so my advice giving might be a little off. I must say, you have so amazing shoulder flexibility though in both arms apparently if your right side is anything like your left.

I would suggest that you line your body and especially your throwing arm up with your target and walk striaght at it and let it fly. You probably already know this, but don't throw it too hard. That seems to be my issue when I throw my spare ball striaght. I throw it too hard and miss.

Anyways I hope this helps and cleared some things up.
_________________________
I may be a noob, but I don't play like one.

High game: 279
High series:655

Arsenal
16 lb. Roto-Grip Cell
16 lb. Hammer Black Widow
15 lb. Columbia Scout Reactive Gold&Blue

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#59346 - 06/15/08 02:59 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Yeah, that's one of my probs, not walking completely straight... and the swing isn't completely straight too, so I try to practise near the gutter, because if I drift I will end in the gutter and that's what I dont want. And I'm just trying to let the ball roll of my hand, rather than throwing.

And yes, sure it did.

- Thanks.

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#59348 - 06/15/08 03:27 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Regional Pro Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 585
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I watched the video and I see what you mean about you not walking straight. For the most part you seem to be able to compensate when you drift though, so I don't see much of a problem unless you want to get rid of the drifting altogether. Do you?

As for the letting the ball roll out of there hand, I would say try to relax your arm as much as possible and maybe lower your backswing a little. It looked like you were a tad uncomfortable, like you had to throttle back all that power from your high backswing. If you do decide to try the lower backswing I would say try it gradually.
_________________________
I may be a noob, but I don't play like one.

High game: 279
High series:655

Arsenal
16 lb. Roto-Grip Cell
16 lb. Hammer Black Widow
15 lb. Columbia Scout Reactive Gold&Blue

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#59351 - 06/15/08 03:37 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
Yeah... I have to work on walking straighter, it's like that I tend to step over my right foot on the 2nd step, then I "turn" a bit with my left foot while going to the left with my 3rd step, then again still bit to the left on the 4th, and then slide to left too.. And I still drift usually 4-6 board to right from my starting point.

Atleast if I'm looking at things right, I have looked my place by placing the outer side of my left foot to the board that I want finish my slide onto, and then the ball should roll 3-4 boards to the left from that, because you can't roll the ball directly near your ankle because of the balls size.

And I'll see on the backswing tomorrow when I get to the lanes.

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#59362 - 06/15/08 09:34 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1684
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Quote:

It looks like you are over swinging the ball quite a bit which is causing your arm to loop in and out which causes the ball to go all over the place.


I agree with this statement. You're trying to steer the ball instead of letting it swing. The ball will swing all on it's own with the help of gravity. You trying to swing it is just going to make it inconsistent.

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#59380 - 06/16/08 04:08 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Lefty]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Regional Pro Hopeful

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 585
A/S/L: 20/Male/California, US
I would have to agree with Coach Jim and Lefty. I didn't even notice your starting ball position. To get the ball that high you are muscling or pulling it up that high. So a higher starting ball position or a lower backswing would definately be beneficial at this point. It's what I was trying to say but I didn't 2 and 2 together. Oh well, I'm glad someone caught it.

Surprisingly enough I did like the one thing desertdog said about the feet trying to keep up with your arms. It takes me back to football when I needed that little burst of extra speed I'd have to pump my arms to make my legs move faster. Same principle except at a slower pace.
_________________________
I may be a noob, but I don't play like one.

High game: 279
High series:655

Arsenal
16 lb. Roto-Grip Cell
16 lb. Hammer Black Widow
15 lb. Columbia Scout Reactive Gold&Blue

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#59396 - 06/16/08 11:43 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1884
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Sam, the hight of your backswing is not the issue, it is how it gets that high, you are pulling the ball back instead of just letting the ball swing your arm. Opening the shoulders to achieve a higher back swing is not the issue, it is pulling the ball back to get it that high. If it swings that high naturally then that is not a problem.

I think what Desertdog, and demo, were commenting on about the pause in the swing is that you are stopping your arm instead of just letting it fall, as displayed by the numerous times your arm stopped by your ankle at the release, the arm has to start slowing down before this point in order to stop that abruptly.

I think if you try the one step and just let the ball swing your arm and keep things simple, then try a two step delivery then a three step then a four step, each succeeding at least ten good shots before advancing a step, and then start each practice session the same way you will pick up the accuracy needed to bowl with your left hand. As it is now you are spraying the ball from gutter to gutter with no clue as to where the ball is going which is why I suggested to stay bowling right handed. Some people are not able to develop the accuracy needed with the opposite hand, some people are, but trying to jump to the end product before working your way there and building strong fundamentals will cut your left handed bowling success way down, so keep it simple and learn to control the ball before trying to get a high back swing and throw a big hook.

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#59403 - 06/16/08 01:38 PM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
Sam Virtuz Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 16/M/Finland
I managed today to get the swing more straighter, and get rid of some of the drifting, atleast the 2nd step goes almost directly infront of the other foot, instead of crossing over a lot to the right.

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#59425 - 06/17/08 01:02 AM Re: Part of my practise today [Re: Sam Virtuz]
desertdog71 Online   content
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
I think you should try some of the things suggested, they may help you.


Edited by desertdog71 (06/17/08 01:28 AM)
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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