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#5902 - 12/08/04 03:13 PM sport bowling leagues, where?
shark rouleur Offline
Junior

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 22
A/S/L: 30/Male/PA
I returned to bowling this fall after four years out. I learned about this new thing that started since I left called sport bowling. Anyone who has tried a tournament or league on this condition knows it can be a great equalizer or, more appropriately a sifter of talent. A lot of strange physical bowling styles are developed on house conditions that are unsuccessful on competitive conditions. I have seen people who can average over 200 on varieties of house conditions doing all sorts of weird things consistently, but when heavy oil, long oil, short oil, and/or flat patterns/out of bounds are present they cannot average 190.

One of the things I do not like about scratch leagues or competitive handicap leagues are the numerous bowlers who bowl one or two houses maximum for years, average 200-230, and have an attitude we all know about; it is akin to trash talking in the NBA or other more publicized pro sports.

I was shocked at first to learn that in my region there are no sport leagues because I thought that competitive bowlers would realize the opportunity was at least available to compete on conditions that will demand improvement of the game's competitors and reqard those who are truly talented and worked hard at learning the game. However, I have come to understand that there appear to be many more bowlers who like averaging 200-230 above all else. Upon inquiry as to why there was not a sport league at each house, I was told that there was no interest notwithstanding the interest of the owners/managers to start such a league.

I can only guess from my personal experience with braggers and "one shot wonders", house managers, and my own desire to bowl well that most bowlers innately want to bowl high scores first and foremost. Once we see a shot we do not like we leave and find a "safer" shot elsewhere.

The problem is that we do not get any better on "safe" shots or comfortable shots. I am making a plea to competitive bowlers everywhere to talk to your house managers and get sport bowling leagues moving. With more people demanding them we can get what we want.

Forgive my gripe and venting because ultimately we all have to just bowl better......but for the improvement of the sport and not the dumbing down of the sport and talent we need options for those trying to challenge themselves and get better.

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#5903 - 12/08/04 03:58 PM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
Coach04 Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 1000
A/S/L: Male/Texas
Until USBC (ABC/WIBC) defines the Sport pattern in a way that makes competition fair across houses, it will never catch on. The last study I read on awards won in Sport Bowling across the country, showed that a majority of the awards were won in one state, and within that state they were won primarily in three houses.

Investigation showed that under sport oil guidelines they were in compliance. But the age and material of the lanes, along with the variance allowed under the guidelines gave them a competitive advantage. One of the downfalls is that pattern length is undefined, it is by ratio of application from head to tail which can vary almost infinitely

The typical problem between a proprietors unwillingness to share details about application of conditioners, and a bowlers desire to bowl on a fair and legal pattern, are in conflict.

A lot of it may just be mindset, or attitude, but it is still a real problem.

As you say there are a lot of bowlers who are quite happy being a big fish in a little pond. For them Sport Oil is a blow to their ego, and strips them of bragging rights. But if they never intend to become a tournament bowler, or a really well rounded bowler, then Sport Oil has no appeal.

I think you are correct in a lot of what you have stated, but I really think a long hard look needs to be taken at defining the pattern more clearly.

Personally I would rather shoot on PBA oil patterns, because they are specific, and a shot can be developed for each with reasonable certainty of repeatability. Where Sport Oil is a roll of the dice depending on where you play.

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#5904 - 12/08/04 04:29 PM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
shark rouleur Offline
Junior

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 22
A/S/L: 30/Male/PA
I was vaguely aware of the problems you mentioned but I did think it was odd that I saw the website the other day and there were not specs for length of patterns etc.
I would agree with what you have said about the problems with fairness since the recent changes appear to be addressing that issue however effectively or uneffectively. I do not know at this point.

I had not thought about the PBA patterns because I was under the impression that the sport condition was going to be the league bowlers answer, but in the event the problems are not fixed, I would agree wholeheartedly.

I would love to see a PBA pattern league........rotations of those patterns listed on the PBA website as the rotations of patterns in a league.

lets do it, make the requests bowlers!

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#5905 - 12/08/04 08:54 PM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Part of the Sport League idea in my opinion, is that the house can make such a league, put such a shot out there, get bowlers to participate and with absolutely no education or tutoring they let them struggle to DEATH. The Sport League I joined was like this. It was NOT educational.

You cannot play a sport pattern like a house pattern. I found that out the hard way. Had their been some guidence in how to play these conditions, I think it would have been much more enjoyable and challenging.

So the idea of sport bowling still has a long was to come. Its also costly for the house to do such a league. The oil machine has to be such that it CAN put our a legitimate sport shot, then tapes of the pattern have to be recorded prior to bowling. Houses with older machines, and non knowledgable lane mechanics, simply cannot participate in Sport conditions. Plus if you have no one in the house knowledgable enough to make sure all these requirements are met, then I guess you won't have a Sport League.

Erin

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#5906 - 12/09/04 12:51 PM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
shark rouleur Offline
Junior

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 22
A/S/L: 30/Male/PA
good points, perhaps it is a comment on how far bowling has to come to become a serious competitive sport. It tells us the focus of house owners is on keeping people happy (see above); obviously without profit they do not survive. It will always have an entertainment/recreational aspect but the sporting facet of bowling is the key to developing talent. We need to hone and raise the level of talent and/or increase the number of talented players.
One of our strengths is that unlike other sports bowling can offer full participation in sport and pro am events, etc. for the public to participate with the professionals. However, if people who bowl do not approach the game as sport and a technically, athletically challenging sport then people could care less about paying attention to the pros or having a long term economic commitment proprietors need to make money.

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#5907 - 02/28/05 04:14 PM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
junbug Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 42/m/WA
one of the turn offs from people i talked to regarding sport bowling is the lack of warnings that they don't get. not to mention the lack of help from fellow competitiors. this is supposed to be a learning experience and you must be willing to swallow your pride for a least two hours a week for the season. unfortunately a lot of bowlers are not willing to work on their game.

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#5908 - 03/01/05 09:38 AM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
ANother turn off is the fact that some centers put out unreasonable shots just to watch people struggle. The sport shot league locally that has all the areas top bowlers in it is currently running a 48(!) foot pattern with heavy oil. They're lucky to get the ball to make a move to the pocket at all. No one is ever going to bowl on something like this. It's just rediculous.

They also have a pattern thats to short.


I bowled in this houses sport shot one summer and it was enough to turn me off. Their idea at that time was to essentially put no oil on the lane. The patterns were either extremely light or extremely short. One was short and had the gutters blocked out. So you had to rocket balls over the middle, without getting the ball outside 10 because it would end up in the gutter if you did.

To me, that's not bowling. It hurt my game to bowl on that because I had to go away from all the fundimentals just to keep the ball on my side of the head pin. Plastic was the ball of choice for a lot of people that summer.

I'm not sure if you guys (and gals) know who Millie Ignizio is, but she was bowling in that league as well and she quit. She said it was rediclous and she was just going to hurt herself trying to bowl on it.

I'm all for difficult shots to improve your game, but I think some centers enjoy torturing bowlers.

EDIT: There's another center that's going to be running a PBA shot league over the summer and I'm going to bowl in that. They did it last year with some success.

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#5909 - 03/01/05 10:02 AM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
mdmjdm Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 221
A/S/L: 40/m/MD
Ahhh...flood the gutters... REVERSE BLOCK. Also known as "Sunday afternoon after two days of open bowling kids"...lol

I must like watching things like that...maybe I'm evil or something... Give me a scratch tournament on a long reverse block condition and I am in heaven. You wont see a 220 average out of me (or most anyone else, for that matter)...but you will see me near the top of the leader board. Regardless of condition, I win by out-thinking the competition and keeping my head on a frustrating shot. I keep it in play, cover my spares... when the power players lose their shot and start opening... I'm still right there ("plodding along")

I think the tough shots separate the men from the boys. But, the shot MUST be consistent from lane to lane...ie "intentional" (not caused by a broken lane machine or other factors)

John
_________________________
Cover your spares...the strikes will still be there when you get back.

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#5910 - 03/01/05 10:17 AM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
mdmjdm Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 221
A/S/L: 40/m/MD
You all do bring up a good point, though. It is all about demand. I mentioned that I must be "evil"...maybe just a [censored] when it comes to bowling.

I ENJOY trying to figure out a pair of lanes...and I have noticed I am definitely in the minority in this area of the country.

Most people just dont realize this simple fact:

On some shots, a 200 average is incredibly difficult...if not impossible for amateur bowlers. On the other hand...that same 200 average can be rather un-impressive on an easy shot.

The demand is driven by an easy question...Would MOST good bowlers rather struggle to a 190, or throw an "easy" 220?

John
_________________________
Cover your spares...the strikes will still be there when you get back.

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#5911 - 03/01/05 10:23 AM Re: sport bowling leagues, where?
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I'm not against a reverse block, or a difficult shot. But I am against a rediculous shot. The shots they were putting out just wern't hittable, and they wouldn't help anyones game.

The pattern was about 30' with the gutters blocked out. That's not even close to something that's hittable.

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