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#58663 - 06/07/08 12:19 AM ball drilling acceptable margin of error
J_w73 Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 1032
A/S/L: 37/M/Northern CA
What is the standard acceptable margin for error when you get a ball drilled? It seems the last couple of times I have had a ball drilled the span is either 1/16 of an inch longer or shorter than what the span on my current ball is. I went out and bought a span gauge to check the spans on my equipment. Is this an acceptable tolerance when drilling a ball or should the driller be better than that? I know 1/16th isn't a lot but I already have a pretty stretched span and I could really feel the extra 1/16th in my span. I just sanded the thumb hole out so it was closer to the fingers and then put some tape on the back side of the hole to make up the distance. I guess I can do just the opposite for the 1/16th shorter.
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#58664 - 06/07/08 01:08 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: J_w73]
TenPin_ Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 505
A/S/L: 32/M/TX
I aim for 1/32nd of an inch, though in many cases I think 1/16th still works. But you really answered this yourself, if you feel the difference and you don't like it, then it is not acceptable.
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Matt
USBC Bronze Coach

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#58665 - 06/07/08 01:16 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: TenPin_]
J_w73 Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 1032
A/S/L: 37/M/Northern CA
I just didn't know if I was being too picky or if that was just the way it is when drilling a ball.. After the ball is drilled I don't really have many options .. I could have them plug and redrill the thumbhole ... but moving it that little i'm sure the plug material will crack.. atleast that is what I have seen in the past. .. I was a little disappointed that I had a new ball that didn't fit the way I wanted but after a little sanding and some tape it feels ok.
_________________________
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+

Book Average 220

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#58670 - 06/07/08 08:18 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: J_w73]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
A teammate of mine opened a Pro Shop and I decided I would be one of his first customers. He drilled a ball and the span was 1/8" off and I asked him to fix it and he said, "You can't feel that, come on". I took the ball to my regular driller and he fixed it. He is on the mark pretty much every time, you can tell if you mark the ball right and take your time measuring. I have had close to 60 balls drilled from him over the years and they all are pretty much identical, we all make mistakes and so has he, but he fixes them on the spot, no questions asked.

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#58675 - 06/07/08 11:54 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: CoachJim]
RLD Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 210
A/S/L: Pinoy-Guamie on the Bay
Good customer service is so hard to find now-a-days. You shouldn't settle for anything less than what you expect. If you're not satisfied with the job done and they're not willing to correct it, it's best you find one that's willing to satisfy your needs.

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#58676 - 06/07/08 12:20 PM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: RLD]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
1/8th is too much error. You can get much closer, but you need to take into account the pencil line (if using wax pencil). A blunt pencil would be maybe 1/16th, a freshly sharpened one....1/32. Then you need to make sure when you put it in the jig on the press that its secure, and the bit is actually going to hit the line where you want it. Say you want it on the bottom of the pencil line for example. It takes experience and time. A lot of drillers go too fast and they are not that accurate. Consequently when bowlers want a ball drilled up NOW, and feel that it should be done in less then 15 min., they are going to get sloppy work. I think for fairly new drillers time equals accuracy. And then add experience equals accuracy.

Erin

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#58677 - 06/07/08 12:30 PM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: CoachJim]
johnw1 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 382
A/S/L: 66/m/Wynantskill/ny/usa
CoachJim,
I've mentioned a few times who I have had drill my balls over the years. A memorable one was when I was in the military stationed in Okinawa. The guy who drilled my ball, a 3-dot Amflite Magic Line, was very precise and I kept that ball for many years - the guy spoke no English but he followed my diagram to a tee. And then there was Jim Lewis, a local PBA member, now retired who drilled all of my stuff during the era of plastic balls. Jim would introduced me to oval holes, greatly increasing my comfort and decreasing my blisters/calluses. He'd take up to an hour shaping those holes by hand. Jim would also take great delight in how close he could come to the static weights I asked for - usually within an 1/8 of an ounce. My current driller, Karl Wolf, a senior PBA member, is alway right on the money - zero tolerance. Before he got involved in the bowling business as an owner and Pro Shop operator, he was a machinist and it shows. Karl keeps a record of every ball he ever drilled for me on a laptop computer and his drill press is computerized also. One other thing, Karl has drilled enough balls for me that he knows that my span isn't going to change. Therefore he feels confident enough to mark the hole locations with a mat knife with a razor point so that there is no width of a pencil line error that might occur if a wax pencil were used. That's where the zero tolerance comes in.

I've had a few bad experiences over the years. The worst one was when I got away from the palm lateral pitch in my thumbhole instead of the under the palm pitch I asked for. The guy kept insisting that he drilled it correctly until his son came in and said "Dad, it's the wrong pitch." Then the guy got mad and kicked me out of his Pro Shop.

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#58696 - 06/07/08 11:05 PM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: johnw1]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I had another lesson where the student had a ball drilled by one of the local drilling guru's who stretched this kid's hand past the first knuckle in hopes that he might grow into it or something. I am taking the kid back there next weekend, it is an hour drive for me and an hour and a half or more for the kid and his father and with these gas prices I know I will not be very happy when I get there.

I would like for just one time to not have to go to the Pro Shop for my second lesson. The first lesson goes like this, "Well your ball doesn't fit your hand, no wonder you are having problems". We work on first and second step timing and getting the ball into the swing and that's about where it ends when if he had a ball that fit his hand we could have gone farther.

The worst part is I think that the shop that drilled the ball is IBPSIA certified too. I wonder if they teach people to drill like that with a stretched span? I know the ball driller and he himself has a relaxed grip, so I wonder why he thinks it is ok to drill someone else's grip like that.

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#58700 - 06/08/08 01:23 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: CoachJim]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Quote:
The worst part is I think that the shop that drilled the ball is IBPSIA certified too. I wonder if they teach people to drill like that with a stretched span? I know the ball driller and he himself has a relaxed grip, so I wonder why he thinks it is ok to drill someone else's grip like that.


Just refer to the post about accuracy concerning measuring and drilling. Most drillers go too fast, don't take the time to be really accurate. Most have acceptable knowledge but they rush the process. Especially with kids, which is sucky.

You have to also keep in mind what might have been discussed by the parents when the ball was purchsed and drilled. "We want to make sure he can use this ball for the entire next season". And most times they put the bucks down and they don't even know that the ball will have to be refit in 4 months and plugged and redrilled etc....... And again in tne next 6 months. To ensure a perfect fit. Yeah but he's 14 - 16 and his hand is still growing. So how can the driller fit a ball when the parents explicitly tell you that they do not want to be back there for plugging and refitting within the year? How many parents want to pay for plugging and redrilling a couple to few times a year? So I'm just suggesting that you give a bit of "benefit of the doubt" to the driller because you were not there when the parents bought the ball. And you are getting probably a 1/2 story from the kid. This may not be the case, but then again it may be exactly the case.

So much for certification.

Erin


Edited by Atochabsh (06/08/08 01:25 AM)

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#58711 - 06/08/08 10:54 AM Re: BALL DRILLING ACCEPTABLE MARGIN OF ERROR [Re: Atochabsh]
TenPin_ Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 505
A/S/L: 32/M/TX
It was actually recommended to me to drill the span 1/8th longer than I measured to allow for room to grow for kids. I've only done a couple of kids, the first I did that way and the others I drilled the span that I measured. I decided to offer free plugging and re-drilling for 1 year for kids instead of drilling the span a little long to begin with. So far I haven't had anyone take advantage of this offer, but then most of the kids around here are just recreational bowlers and are probably just happy having their own ball.
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Matt
USBC Bronze Coach

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