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#58294 - 06/02/08 11:10 PM Just when I thought
desertdog71 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 793
A/S/L: 38/M/Independence, KS
it couldn't get any worse, it does.

155-121-179 for a big 455 on the Chameleon. I just suck out loud and that is all there is to it.

So after working all week on not hitting the ball and not muscling my swing, what do you think I did for 26 frames today? Thats right I hit up on the ball, I muscled my swing, I went through the nose repeatedly, my balls over-reacted, my legs hurts, my hand hurts, my shoulder hurts, and my head hurts. brickwall

So, the last game frames 7-10 go like this:

X -/ X XX8

I quit muscling the ball on those shots. Even the gutter ball yes, I just missed right is all. I had ZERO area.

Anyways, I have to re-tool my entire game and I have a ton of work to do obviously by the results above. 121!!! I haven't shot that low since I was a toddler.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#58295 - 06/02/08 11:20 PM Re: Just when I thought [Re: desertdog71]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9813
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Hitting up and muscling are two words you cannot use in the same sentence with Chameleon pattern. Sorry, you had to find out the hard way.
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#58297 - 06/02/08 11:28 PM Re: Just when I thought [Re: Dennis Michael]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Hitting up on the chameleon is bad enough alone. I did both of these things last week as well, on said pattern. When I did, just like you, I went through the nose because it caused me to pull my shot even though it looked like I was following through. I was also trying to come more up the back of the ball so that's where hitting up on it hurt me. When I relaxed, however, was able to project the ball to my breakpoint. It's just a matter of realizing that you're doing it, and then executing correctly. I luckily walked away with a 181 and that's of course because I missed some spares I shouldn't have.


Edited by Amateur (06/02/08 11:30 PM)

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#58298 - 06/02/08 11:36 PM Re: Just when I thought [Re: Jay R.]
desertdog71 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 793
A/S/L: 38/M/Independence, KS
I have 6 splits in the second game, and all 6 were open frames.

I started game 1 X X 9/ X and then it was gone. Never to return. Finished that game with 5 splits.

Stand 28, roll 16, breakpoint about 8. Hit 15 its in the ditch or if your lucky you take 3 off the edge. Hit 17 and its through the nose. Meanwhile this 70 year old man is twisting an old cobra up 15 and just working me over. Doing the ole kick the leg around [censored] Weber wall shot.
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#58303 - 06/03/08 06:00 AM Re: Just when I thought [Re: desertdog71]
Silent Mike Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 998
A/S/L: 39/M/Poconos PA
You can't play the PBA patterns like you do a house shot. All that area and room for error the house shot affords you never presents itself so much as when you get on one of these experience leagues.

On the flip side you can't go telling yourself the shots are impossible. In fact they are all very playable but your area for mistakes is less than half of what I was use to on a THS. The only pattern that gave me fits the few times I saw it was Shark. It was humbling. Forget the scores from this week, its over and done with all you can worry about is your next outing.
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#58305 - 06/03/08 08:01 AM Re: Just when I thought [Re: Silent Mike]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
The PBA patterns are the reason I learned a straighter release.

On house shots, around here at least, the rather defined oil line forces you to play a swing shot if you have any kind of hand. To play that swing shot, you have to get around the ball. Since you're coming out of such heavy oil, you get a nice push to the breakpoint, burn up some rotation making the turn, and strike.

On the PBA shots, there is not that defined oil line. Playing inside becomes a choice, not a directive of the lane condition. In addition, when you hit the backend, your ball will tend to unload its energy a lot quicker (I've found). This is why I go with an outside line and reduced axis rotation. If you get a chance to practice on these patterns outside of league, try some shots where your follow through really concentrates on your pinky following through to the target (note to others reading, this is desert-dog specific - the rest of you should use your ring finger). This should cut down the axis rotation to about 30 degrees, getting ball into more of a roll, and causing a much more smooth and predictable breakpoint reaction. You will need to move out for this - if you're playing a breakpoint of 8, you probably won't want to cross more than 3 or 4 boards to get there. You might also want to try making some moves even farther right, perhaps playing straight up 5, or 4, just to see how your reaction looks. In my experience, no one else will be out there, and there will probably be a shot there.

You can play these patterns so that you have a little bit of room (maybe 1.5 boards at arrows, 2 or 3 at breakpoint), but you have to find the right area on the lane. In my league, it's harder yet, because you move each game. No time to set the lanes up. If you are bowling on one pair, by all means, you should be able to burn up a dry spot on our outside 5, then move in *a little* and use that extra room outside for recovery.
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#58307 - 06/03/08 08:59 AM Re: Just when I thought [Re: cgeorg]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
A couple of points to think about

You can't get frustrated with these conditions or you're not going to learn. Forget about your score, forget about your ego, make shots and pay attention to what's going on. Treat it as practice and forget there are other people there.

When you're bowling well and you're making good shots, you'll get rewarded. When you're not, you're going to really get punished. I've shot 287 and then followed that up with a 141 on a PBA pattern. You have to accept that you're going to have bad games, really bad games sometimes, but if you get frustrated and stop working at it, you're not going to get anything out of it. I've learned 10 times more from my bad games than I have from my good games, especially on sport patterns. If you don't adjust correctly, it can make you look terrible. If you don't get lined up correctly, if can make you look terrible. If you don't put the right ball in your hand, it can make you look terrible. If you don't execute properly, it can make you look terrible.

It can really be mentally draining, but you need to analyze every shot and every ball reaction and be ready to make adjustments, whether it's ball, line, hand position, finger pressure, etc.. and then you have to be ready to scrap those adjustments and go to something else.

Lastly, the only way to learn this is to do it. People aren't generally going to bowl on sport conditions for the first time and do well. It's a culture shock and there's a learning curve. Just make sure you're moving up the learning curve by paying attention and not getting frustrated.

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#58311 - 06/03/08 09:33 AM Re: Just when I thought [Re: Lefty]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
I think one reason it's easy to get really frustrated is because everything you're looking at is the same, but your bowling looks way off. Picture playing at your local public course, with 30 or 40 yard wide fairways, and little rough. You miss one 25 yards right, it's ok - you have a shot at the green. Do the same at Augusta and you're looking at double par...

I'm going to stop this right here. The analogy as far as missing still holds, but frankly, I think I'd be just as frustrated playing Augusta poorly as I would be playing a PBA pattern poorly. I think we're actually pretty lucky that we have access to this level of difficulty on such a broad scale - how many of us will ever get a chance to play Augusta? I'm betting everyone on this board is within 2 hours of the chance to play on a PBA shot sometime this week. So, I guess my point is... hmm. We'll leave this one open to interpretation smile
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#58313 - 06/03/08 10:38 AM Re: Just when I thought [Re: desertdog71]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
DD the problem with using the pinky and ring fingers is the angle you automatically get with just a flat wrist. For you to reduce your axis rotation and tilt enough to play the lines cgeorg is suggesting you are going to have to learn to hold your wrist similar to Dave Husted.

By the way you did it wrong 26 times out of 40+ shots, that is not bad for only a few days of practice, this is a learned skill and it may take a long time to get the hang of especially having to use the ring and pinky fingers, you are going to have to learn wrist positions that the rest of us don't have to. Have you tried using the ring and index fingers? A shortened span on the index finger might help you lower your tilt and rotation when needed, then change back to pinky and ring for when you need more. I am just thinking out loud and throwing ideas out. I have to go to physical therapy so look up Dave Husted on Youtube.

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#58348 - 06/03/08 07:52 PM Re: Just when I thought [Re: CoachJim]
desertdog71 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 793
A/S/L: 38/M/Independence, KS
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
DD the problem with using the pinky and ring fingers is the angle you automatically get with just a flat wrist. For you to reduce your axis rotation and tilt enough to play the lines cgeorg is suggesting you are going to have to learn to hold your wrist similar to Dave Husted.

By the way you did it wrong 26 times out of 40+ shots, that is not bad for only a few days of practice, this is a learned skill and it may take a long time to get the hang of especially having to use the ring and pinky fingers, you are going to have to learn wrist positions that the rest of us don't have to. Have you tried using the ring and index fingers? A shortened span on the index finger might help you lower your tilt and rotation when needed, then change back to pinky and ring for when you need more. I am just thinking out loud and throwing ideas out. I have to go to physical therapy so look up Dave Husted on Youtube.


I don't think the problem is wrist or finger position, because I was able to make a few good shots through the night. The problem was that I abandoned what I had practiced, got [censored] off and self destructed. My self talk became very negative, and fed my frustration. When I finally got out of my head and rolled the ball like I needed to I was successful.

I was hitting the ball like I always do. Instead of hitting up I was hitting more towards the pins, but it didn't register in my brain that I needed to simply not hit it at all. The last few frames I was simply dumping the ball off my hand with zero hit to it. By hitting the ball, I mean the quick acceleration through the release. When I took that part out of it and just kind of dumped it off my hand, it still hooked just as much but it didn't jump in the backends.

I am thinking that this is what you have been trying to tell me, but I just wasn't quite understanding what you meant by it. My ball speed decreased some but the reaction was nice as smooth, and the hit was equally as effective if not more so. I did leave a couple solid nines earlier in the night, which indicates too much ball or too much entry angle. I also had a couple 4-9 splits along the way.

I know I haven't bowled in a long time, but the fact is that I have bowled thousands of games the way I do now, and I still have a certain amount of muscle memory that makes my want the rip the cover off the ball. Its as natural as breathing to me, so its like asking me to not breathe to get an effective change.

I am not making excuses because I will overcome this. I have been a close to elite level bowler in the past and I will be again, if not better. It's just hard to swallow, how much the game has changed and how far I have fallen, because honestly 15 years ago there isn't a person in the league that could hold my bowling towel. Now I get worked on a regular basis by people I should be destroying. My record is 10-22 in a scratch league and its embarrassing. So yeah, my ego is taking a beating as well.

Fact of the matter is that I just gotta sack up and fix it. End of story. So I need all the help I can get at this point.
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