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#57774 - 05/27/08 01:55 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: desertdog71]
desertdog71 Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 400
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
Oh, and I am in a PBAX league. My timing issues have been a concern, so hitting target has not went well. I hadn't considered changing my release. I am about 180 through 2 weeks of PBAX
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#57775 - 05/27/08 02:01 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: desertdog71]
cgeorg Offline
Legend

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1548
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
I have no carry problems. You will see a more consistent reaction if you don't hit up on it. Hitting up generally leads to more of an over/under reaction, especially on sport shots.

Sean Rash does not hit up on the ball, and he gets over 450 rpm. PDW does not, and has never hit up on the ball. Would you say he "kills the ball"?
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#57781 - 05/27/08 02:45 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: cgeorg]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1867
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
One of the traps you can get in is that when you don't get a reaction or the reaction you're looking for, you will want to revert back to hitting up on the ball. But as I said earlier, and as cgeorg said here, you will get over/under on sport shots. The ball will either squirt past the breakpoint or jump through the face. You can really shrink the amount of area you have by doing this.

When you stop grabbing the ball and stop hitting up on the ball, it will seems like the lane opens up. One of the advantages of todays equipment is that it does a lot more work on it's own. Hitting up on it makes it do bad things. Let it do what it's capable of doing.

It would also make sense why you don't like skid/flip type balls. Hitting up makes them over react. Relaxing and just throwing the ball will get a much better reaction out of them.

As to shooting 220+ when you practice, there really is no good benchmark for house shot averages anymore. I know someone who's averaged 249 and 250 on a house shot in consecutive years. I've out averaged bowlers who are much much better than I am. Unfortunately scoring on a house shot is not a good indicator of a bowlers skill or technique.

I went through a similar thing that you're going through. I quit in either '91 or '92, never owned a resin ball, and then came back 6 years later. I also preferred arching balls over skid/snap balls because I hit up on the ball and controlled my arm swing. The game is different now and what worked then isn't what works best today. Go back and watch the guys on ESPN classic and watch how they all hit up on the ball. Then compare them to todays pros who don't at all. Todays game is much more fluid and smooth.

Bowling on sport conditions will make these types of flaws stand out where you may not even see it on a house shot.

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#57792 - 05/27/08 03:29 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: Lefty]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2255
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
See what I mean it took me years and $$$ to learn what Lefty and cg have written for free.

If you get John Jowdy's book Execution it explains the modern release very well. He describes it has hitting out not hitting up. Your thumb comes out earlier behind your heel and your fingers come out just past the toes extended out toward your target not up by your ear. Ron Clifton told me to think smoooooth when you are releasing the ball.

Plant and pull crankers are like Brian Himmler, Amletto Monecelli, Ryan Shafer. Shafer has modified his release and has had good success at the major events in recent years and has almost won all of the majors in the last 3 or 4 years.

The reason hitting up on the ball creates an erratic reaction (one time too much the next time not enough), is the ball doesn't sit down in the oil, it bounces sometimes the bounce causes some amount of axis rotation to come off the ball sometimes it doesn't, and when it bounces it sits up on top of the oil and hydroplanes instead of sitting down in the oil.

A perfectly thrown ball will not make a noise until it hits the pins. In Jowdy's book he describes releasing the ball under an imaginary bar that is a foot above the floor, Ron goes a step farther and puts a broom stick on some ball boxes and has me roll the ball under the stick. He has the stick about 18" past the foul line and has me reach for the stick on the follow through. Please ask the manager for permission before you put anything out past the foul line if you try this yourself.

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#57816 - 05/27/08 07:31 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: CoachJim]
desertdog71 Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 400
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
This actually seems like a reasonably easy adjustment. Although I will probably need somebody versed in this method to evaluate my release when I make the change.

I saw the article about strong finger position however it did not mention thumb position to go along with it.

Just trying it here at the house, lets see if I can describe what is going on. I am right handed for this to make sense.

My current release: Fingers at 7-8 just like the article states. Thumb at about 1:30 through out the armswing, at the release point the thumb comes up to about 11 o clock, fingers flip the ball in an upward motion. Arm bends at the follow through and come up near my right ear.

My interpretation of the preferred release: Fingers at 7-8 o clock: Thumb at 10-11 o clock. Armswing at release is with a straight arm, and pushing down the lane towards the pins. Thumb position turns outward to the 1-2 o clock position. Arm remains straight in the follow through ending in front of the body just above eye level, and not by the ear.

Is this making any sense at all? I hope it does because I think I can make this adjustment fairly quickly.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

Top
#57817 - 05/27/08 07:34 PM Re: Entry Angle [Re: desertdog71]
desertdog71 Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 400
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
I am moving the release issue to another thread.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

Top
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