You know how there are two types of "power bowlers" in the PBA--cuppers like Del Ballard and open-shoulder players like Brian Himmler--but you never see a bowler who cups and opens his shoulders? If you've seen thumbless bowlers before, didn't most of them have really short backswings?

The problem is that, if you cup behind the ball and then open your shoulder, you'll be completely sideways of the ball at the end of the backswing, so the cup doesn't help you at all (my guess is, the ball will fall to the ground if you don't have your thumb in it). You'll only be behind the ball at the end of the backswing if you start out cupping the ball sideways.

So, even though I'm behind the ball there (and that's a great capture btw), I'm actually still holding it diagonally. It would be easier to see if my shoulders were closed, but then the ball would be about a foot and a half to the right of my body and I wouldn't have the strength to control it.


I'm working on a shot with 12-6 spin right now--the first step to that is keeping my shoulders closed--and once I get that, I'll experiment with moving my fingers. My current shot really precludes me from making any serious finger movement.

So...what kind of help were you looking for?

Ideas, I guess.

I was thinking, if the open body position is what's keeping my hand behind the ball, maybe I shouldn't be squaring up so quickly. Instead of finishing straight and solid, I might be better off keeping my chest down.

I've looked at Ballard quite a bit trying to pick up his motion for the straight shot, but I haven't looked at the open-hand guys at all. My next step is probably to go to YouTube and get a good look at how those guys finish, to see whether there's something there I can apply to my own game.


Also, I think I'll get rid of the dip for a while, see whether I have any problems.


Trust me, this thread has been very helpful for me.

If you are going to bowl no thumb you should learn to do it right and copy someone who bowls no thumbed, Del Ballard is great, but you will not be able to bowl like him without putting your thumb in the ball. Watch this video of mike miller if you pause it at exactly 56 seconds you will see his hand position at the release.

I agree with CachJim and CG. You are in fact turning the ball early (even if you want to rationalize it or call it something else). If you don't want to fix it, that's up to you, but you're still doing it.

untutored, look at Sean Rash's hand in his swing. He is very cupped, very open, and stays inside the ball until his release point. Chris Barnes does the same. I do the same.

...

Wait, scratch that last one for now. I'll get there.

untutored, have you seen this?

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_2_handed_thumbless_drills.pdf

We're all agreed that it's in the wrong spot--that's why it's a full roller, because I'm not getting anything from the fingers.

We're just arguing about possible fixes.


I took a look at Rash, and from the front I thought you were right--it looked like he was opening up with his hand at 4:00 and then turning his hand to 6:00 as he pulled his arm into a figure 8. (Bringing the ball back sideways, twisting it straight, then twisting again on the release.)

I finally got a good look from behind, though, and now I think he's got his shoulder tucked just like Barnes does. The difference is that Rash pulls the ball to the left at the end of his backswing and then brings it back through his body.

Where he gets the strength to pull the ball around with his shoulder flexed like that, I have no idea, but that's what it looks like to me.


Either way, if you can do that, you're pretty good.

The part I like is at about :30, where the announcer says Miller is "living proof you don't have to turn your hand over to get a powerful bowling ball". It tickles me how they were holding him out as an improvement over Mark Roth.

Anyway, I'm not concerned with the arm or wrist yet, just trying to get the feel of bowling with my shoulder tucked, and trying to figure out where to put my feet, my balance arm, my off leg, etc.


Speaking of which, what do you think of my (new) leg kick? You mentioned in another thread how it might be too far to the left, but you didn't mention it in this thread, so I've been assuming it was OK...

I can't get the file to open.

I had to reinstall Adobe, so my computer might be at fault here.