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#57647 - 05/26/08 10:32 AM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
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Registered: 12/11/05
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A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Coach, question... If it worked last week for Lefty, but didn't work this week, How does that relate to a pitch problem? Couldn't he have been grabbing with his thumb for those couple of games? He seemed to have corrected it in the last game.

Lefty ,what did you do to fix it?
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#57649 - 05/26/08 11:40 AM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Dennis, the release should be automatic. If you have to think about doing something to get your thumb out, that means you are holding on, then releasing it. Just because you do it right one week doesn't mean you should be doing it at all. The ball should be holding on to the hand, and the ball should be releasing itself, NOT the other way around.

Also, Lefty has commented in the chat that he think he should go forward 1/8" or so. Context clues smile
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#57652 - 05/26/08 12:04 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
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OK, so, he noticed the need for a pitch change. Why, subconsciously or what ever would he grip one day and not another? To me, it seems like something else was controlling this.

My take would be the pattern, and how he thought he had to roll on it. Worked in game 4, but not game 2. The oil patterns put you in a frame of mind that says, given this condition, what do I have to do to beat it.

Coming from my PBAX experience, which was not a good one, I found myself changing many things to hopefully, get the desired result. That was the WRONG thing to do. Lefty fixed it in a couple of games. I suffered for 5 months afterward.

So, my thought is maybe he changed his release negatively, or his side rotation, or came out late, or rotated late. These are different than a pitch change. A pitch change wouldn't fix these.
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#57656 - 05/26/08 12:50 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Or, the negative effects could have been caused subconsciously because the ball was coming off early due to improper pitch...

Sometimes, when my ball comes off early, I end up with a follow through across my body. Before I had a chance to think, my body knew that I was going to lose rotation because the ball came off early. So, it makes up for it by pushing my follow through left, hard, right away, to get back some of the lost revs. It usually gets me back to the pocket, though with poor carry. Better than the washout I would have had otherwise.

And, it is all subconscious.
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#57657 - 05/26/08 01:52 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
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If pitch was the problem, don't you think it would happen more frequently? Rather than just a game or two? Don't you think a mechanical problem could exist with the bowler, or his hand?
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#57665 - 05/26/08 05:22 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: Dennis Michael]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
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A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Sorry for the slow response, but we were driving back from Baltimore this morning.

What happens is that sometimes I get my hand into a position where I feel like the ball gets locked on to my thumb and it won't come off. My hand will go past the bottom of the swing and the ball won't come off. The ball will travel 6" - 1' further before my thumb releases.

I had to think about letting my hand open up at the bottom of the swing and then the ball would come off where it's supposed to.

Think of it like this. If you try to keep your hand inside the ball and you do that past the release point, will the ball come off your thumb? I'm pretty sure it won't, and that's what I think I was sort of doing. I just have to make sure my hand is in the right position for the ball to release from my thumb.

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#57702 - 05/26/08 08:28 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: Lefty]
untutored Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 175
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
Nice job, Lefty.

-20 when you're struggling is impressive. When I'm having trouble with my mechanics, I'd be lucky to bowl that on a house shot.

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#57706 - 05/26/08 08:36 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: untutored]
desertdog71 Offline
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Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 400
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
This is a subject that has always baffled me. How can you not squeeze the ball at least a little and still hang on to it, without cupping the ball?

I have pretty tight thumb holes and I am constantly adjusting with tape, but I always have to squeeze a little to hang on, until the release point.
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#57712 - 05/26/08 08:51 PM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: desertdog71]
infernocal Offline
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Good ball fit, proper pitches, just the right amount of bevel and correctly sized holes. I've just recently had a ball that was done like that. All of my equipment had a span around half an inch too long, the thumb holes too big needed 7+ pieces of white tape and a piece of black. I went and had it checked out at another shop and had a ball re-done with the shorter span, tighter thumb hole and the pitch according to the drilling charts. I just needed to add a couple pieces of tape and the ball locks on my hand by itself, a first for me.
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#57739 - 05/27/08 08:54 AM Re: Summer Leagues 2008 [Re: infernocal]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1861
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
As Infernocal said, having the right span and enough forward pitch in the thumb will keep it on your hand. I don't disagree with CoachJim that I could stand to move my pitch forward, but I don't think it's much. I can throw the ball with my hand completely relaxed and not have the ball slip most of the time. Some times it will slip a little on some nights, but not much. I have 1/8th reverse, but I also have a 4 3/4 span and my thumb is over 2.5 inches long. I'm thinking about taking a ball and going back to 0, or maybe 1/8th forward to see how it works.

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