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#57348 - 05/23/08 02:17 PM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: cgeorg]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1848
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
What would that Cell drilling end up looking like on house type patterns? Would I be able to use it outside 5 on the scorpion? The reason I was thinking pin down was so that it would get into a roll earlier on those longer patterns, and be ready to make its move right when it hit the dry... Wrong thinking?


It would be very flipy on a house pattern and probably over react.
The shark is 44ft long and only gives you 16 ft to get the ball to hook and roll into the pocket. Placing the pin down makes the ball hook over a longer period of time, earlier, but also later, where putting the pin over the fingers makes the ball hook and roll in a shorter space. Shorter patterns and lesser angles = pin below fingers longer patterns and inside and sharper angles = pin over fingers.

You already have several balls for house pattern and no balls for long heavy oil so I would fill that void with the Cell and get a shiny go long ball with the pin under the fingers for house and shorter patterns.

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#57350 - 05/23/08 02:27 PM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: CoachJim]
cgeorg Offline
Hall of Famer Hopeful

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 912
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
How would it compare with my Total then? The total is around 4 1/2" or 4 3/4", and the pin is higher than on the Infinite One. There is no Mass Bias, but I think the CG is pretty close to stacked, which would be close to 30-40 degrees. The cover seems to take adjustments well.
_________________________
Brunswick Avalanche Solid - 4000 abralon
Rotogrip Cell - 2000 abralon
Ebonite Big One - 2000 abralon
Brunswick Total Inferno - 1000 abralon
Ebonite Infinite One - 2000 abralon

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#57371 - 05/23/08 04:58 PM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: cgeorg]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1662
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
I'm thinking about getting a Cell as my agressive ball for shots like the Shark. We're bowling on the Scorpion right now and I had good success last night using a Black Widow. That is after I figured out that I was over throwing the ball (again). I was trying to use an Action and couldn't double to save my life. Once I switched to the Black Widow, the results were much better. I could play the same line with both, but the ball reaction and carry was better with the Black Widow. It's at 4000.

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#57819 - 05/27/08 07:46 PM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: Lefty]
cgeorg Offline
Hall of Famer Hopeful

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 912
A/S/L: 25/M/Pittsburgh, Pa
Ok, played the Viper. Ball surfaces were:

Total: 1000
Ones: 2000
VP2: 4000

I fished for a while before I found my comfort zone.

VP2: Got a great reaction... sometimes. Sometimes it never bit. If the outside gets a little too burned up but there is backend I can use it. It will probably stay in the bag. Or, it might be good at 1000 or 2000. Again, the 16lbs was killing me. Will talk to Pro Shop guy about getting an Avalanche Solid in its place. Chad thinks he'll get me one for $120 with everything.

Big One: Same as VP2. A little more predictable. If the Infinite is hooking a bit much, or rolling out, and it's not dry enough for the Total, it will be the ball I go to.

Infinite One: Good, especially to start. Piping up 3 or 4, going with a little more side rotation (probably around 35 degrees) Able to get in as far as 12 or 13 and roll over 4 before it loses its look

Total: Once the line burns up from the Ones, this ball rocked the shot. I started on 14, going over 6, and just kept moving in, keeping the breakpoint out at 4 or 5. Great read, great move, great carry. I hope the people ahead of me open up the lanes for me so I can use it.

All of these balls played best with breakpoints between 3 and 5. I experimented with getting inside, playing 13 or 14 at the arrows, and I had a shot, but miss outside a board and I had a washout. Took me some games to find my shot outside, but I found it. The guy that shot the 9 last week pre-bowled for this week. 955. The manager and I have our work cut out for us smile
_________________________
Brunswick Avalanche Solid - 4000 abralon
Rotogrip Cell - 2000 abralon
Ebonite Big One - 2000 abralon
Brunswick Total Inferno - 1000 abralon
Ebonite Infinite One - 2000 abralon

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#57827 - 05/27/08 08:46 PM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: cgeorg]
desertdog71 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
Got the Chameleon coming up on Monday myself. Any suggestions on where to play it?

The Shark wasn't too bad, except that my timing is off so kept missing left of target. I had a line to play, and a good 2-3 boards of area, just couldn't manage to hit it.

Scorpion, I was totally lost until Game 3, Frame 9. I decided that since I had lost the point anyways, I would try a couple things. I moved outside swinging 12 to 4 and banged out the last 4 with authority. That is in my memory banks now.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#57861 - 05/28/08 08:02 AM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: desertdog71]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1848
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
The Chameleon can be played from many different angles which is why they call it the Chameleon, straighter players will see it one way and power players will see it another. Both will have the most success starting out getting the ball either out to the 8 board from inside or straight up 8 for straighter players. Misses to the right or left will be magnified as there is not the oil on the lane that there is on the shark or scorpion patterns.

Look out for carry down on the Chameleon, the heads will dry quicker than the other two patterns and the oil will carry down a little more causing you to make a parallel move (2 and 2 or some variety of that), to find a clean spot on the back end to get a consistent look.

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#57880 - 05/28/08 10:27 AM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: CoachJim]
desertdog71 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
I know it is more layed out in strips. So I am thinking the most direct line through the oil with a controled backend would be best. I have a Tropical Storm that is drilled axis weight that I should be able to do this with.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

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#57881 - 05/28/08 10:39 AM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: desertdog71]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1662
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
To couple with changing your release, you might want to get equipment that this release is designed to work with. Right now you most have stuff with a pancake weight block and entry level surfaces. Instead of trying to make this low end equipment hook. Relax and let the mid level stuff work for you.

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#57883 - 05/28/08 11:01 AM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: Lefty]
desertdog71 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 36/M/Independence, KS
Actually I bought low end equipment for less hook, my goal is not to hook the whole lane. Ideally I want to play more down and in. You see back many years ago despite hitting the ball I would play up the 8 board to the pocket. I am most accurate playing this type of line, so I buy less aggresive equipment with weak drill patterns in order to reduce the hook. I don't think the change in release will actually reduce my hook much, but I think it will delay the reaction. This is a good thing as well.
_________________________
Recovering Hookaholic: 18.783MPH at 486RPM
In my bag
16# Brunswick Red Zone (length and arc)
16# Brunswick Attitude II (Shark monster)
16# Brunswick Power Groove Reactive (skid/flip)
16# Brunswick Groove Urethane (doesn't hook)
16# Brunswick Target Zone
HGS 298
HSS 802

Top
#57884 - 05/28/08 11:07 AM Re: Ball Surfaces for the PBA patterns [Re: desertdog71]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1848
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
No strips, just a faded christmas tree type pattern that can be played from many angles.

You are onto something with pin axis weights. Your higher axis rotation will be more controllable with pin placements 1 1/2" to 2" from the pap. You might want to look into a No Mercy and or a No Mercy beat'n since they don't seem to cover a ton of boards and are closer to a farm tractor than a ferrari in performance, these balls are also going out of production so you might be able to find a good deal on them.

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