BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#54943 - 04/19/08 03:49 AM I throw a full roller
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
Yesterday I had a new ball drilled (Lane #1 Liberator), and threw a few balls beforehand to get a Track and establish my points. That's how I learned for the first time that I throw a full roller, not a semiroller like everybody else.

Apparently, most full rollers Track through the holes, but I Track perpendicular to that--full-diameter lines fanning out midway between my thumb and finger holes, coming to a belt a couple of inches to the left of my grip (and another belt on the other side of the ball, of course).


Can anybody tell me if they've seen this before? Can I switch to a semi-roller fairly easily if I want to, and if so, should I? Should I be getting balls drilled like other full rollers, or should I be using a different drilling pattern?
_________________________
Bounty, Original Black Pearl (800 w/polish), Copperhead, Avalanche Solid (2000), Sidewinder, Liberator (4000), Faball Red Pearlized Hammer

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#54948 - 04/19/08 09:09 AM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: untutored]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6565
A/S/L: 50/F/California
If you are open to changing then I would. But it will take some professional coaching. At a high level too. Most coaches do not know what you are talking about until you hit the Silver Level, when you say full roller. This is not something you can do on your own. Most full rollers are there for life. Its not an easy change to make.

However, we do have a full roller on our team that is averaging over 200. So it can be done without changing, you just have to get really really accurate and get the proper drill. Most pro shops will know what the most dynamic drill is for a full roller. You don't have a lot of choices with this style. Full roller is not an automatic death sentence.

Erin

Top
#54966 - 04/19/08 02:16 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: Atochabsh]
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
Thanks for your response, Erin.


If it's a difficult change, I'm probably stuck with it--I average 200 myself, throw a big hook, so I'm not unhappy with my shot. It's just strange because 99% of bowlers do things the other way.

I guess my biggest concern is drill pattern, since my Track is so far away from the typical full roller's. Maybe I should have started this thread in the "Pro Shop".
_________________________
Bounty, Original Black Pearl (800 w/polish), Copperhead, Avalanche Solid (2000), Sidewinder, Liberator (4000), Faball Red Pearlized Hammer

Top
#54972 - 04/19/08 06:00 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: untutored]
johnw1 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 382
A/S/L: 66/m/Wynantskill/ny/usa
My father threw a full roller where the ball tracks between the thumbhole and the middle finger hole. Most bowlers(right handers) who throw a full roller hold the ball with the fingers at 4 - 4:30 and as the ball leaves the fingers turn the ball slightly clockwise to 5 - 5:30.

To convert to a semi-roller where the ball tracks outside the thumb and finger holes, put your fingers in the 6 o'clock position or directly under the ball and turn your hand counterclockwise at the release point. Do not allow your fingers to go past 3 o'clock. Also do not turn the ball prematurely. All those nice revs come from turning the ball an instant before the ball comes off the fingers.

The transitions from a full roller to a semi-roller may take up to a couple of weeks before it comes natural and you feel comfortable with it. If you have an old chair with padding or cushions or an old sofa, maybe you can practice the semi-roller release at home.

Note: Hall of Famer Mike Durbin switched from a full roller to a semiroller midway in his career in order to remain competitive.

Top
#54975 - 04/19/08 08:03 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: johnw1]
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
That makes sense, johnw1. I start at about 11:00 (hand all the way under the ball) and finish at 4:00 or so. I'm rev-dominant, but the revs come from pulling up through the ball, not from my modest finger turn.

There is about a minute's worth of Mike Miller footage on youtube, and he starts out going from 12:00 towards 6:00, then turns to 3:00 at the finish. When I saw it, Miller's finish struck me as being needlessly complicated, but now I'm beginning to see the point to it.


I'm currently experimenting with going from 12:00 to 6:00 myself, for picking up the 10pin. (That's how I've started most of my mechanical adjustments through the years.) I'll work on that during the summer, and if I get comfortable with it, I'll experiment with trying to turn my fingers to 3:00 at the finish, just to see what the shot looks like.
_________________________
Bounty, Original Black Pearl (800 w/polish), Copperhead, Avalanche Solid (2000), Sidewinder, Liberator (4000), Faball Red Pearlized Hammer

Top
#54977 - 04/19/08 08:44 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: untutored]
johnw1 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 382
A/S/L: 66/m/Wynantskill/ny/usa
Untutored.

Good luck with your conversion.

Top
#54981 - 04/19/08 09:30 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: johnw1]
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
Thanks, John!
_________________________
Bounty, Original Black Pearl (800 w/polish), Copperhead, Avalanche Solid (2000), Sidewinder, Liberator (4000), Faball Red Pearlized Hammer

Top
#54986 - 04/19/08 11:47 PM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: untutored]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
To add to what Johnw1 said already, you can do a one step delivery or a no step delivery to help learn a new release.

The no step release, you get into the release position with your slide foot in front, your trail leg in a stable position so you are balanced and stable, then let the ball hang at your side put your wrist into position and swing the ball forward, then backward then forward then backward then forward and release the ball.

The reason you swing it back and forth twice first is to learn to keep your wrist in position during the swing and to keep it there to the release point. This is how I will be bowling my first few shots when I come back, then I will go to the one step to get my timing back. I may not throw a full 4 step approach for a week or two after I start bowling again.

The one step delivery you stand about 3ft from the foul line, do the normal push away and swing without taking any steps, when the ball gets to the top of the back swing and you feel the "zero gravity" point at the top of the back swing, bend your right knee and slide (right handed, left knee and slide for lefties) and preform the release as Johnw1 already said. I take it he has had some experience with this as that was great advice. Many of the people in my area were taught the "hand shake release" so I have had to help more than my share of full rollers.

Question for Erin, I thought the Full roller drilling was mostly so the ball flares in the opposite direction so it doesn't flare back over the fingers and thumb.


Edited by CoachJim (04/19/08 11:50 PM)

Top
#54987 - 04/20/08 12:09 AM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9115
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
CoachJim, my Lane Master drilling guide shows 2 drill patterns for a full roller. It says, "It is not recommended to deviate from them as it may lead to the ball Track flaring over the fingers and/or thumb."

Full roller Length - The pin is next to the middle finger, in or near the Track. This reduced Track flare, increases length and reduced hook.

Full roller Leverage - The pin is below the Track, closer to the thumb, and will produce a reaction comparable to a label leverage drilling.
_________________________
Brunswick - Meanstreak 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M Widow Maker 15# Polished Hybrid
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




Top
#54991 - 04/20/08 02:34 AM Re: I throw a full roller [Re: Dennis Michael]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6565
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Yeah, that's about all you have a choice of when you are a full roller.

Let's see, you are over 200. How much over 200 do you want to be? Once you reach that point its pretty tough to get better. Sure there are a lot of 220 and 230 bowlers out there now compared to in the old days. Very few of them are at that level no matter what house and condition they see. But if you are not looking to get on tour, not looking to bowl Regionals, not looking to earn a living and support your family off bowling, then why make such a drastic change. Because I disagree with John that it will take just a couple weeks. Changing a full roller is not like shifting the degree of release on a 3/4 roller. Sorry, but in my experience, its really not that easy to change from a full roller. If Mike Durbin did that, and I have my doubts since my partner bowled with him when he was 16 and Mike was 21 (he was his coach) and he was NOT throwing a full roller at that time, then you have to take into account that Mike Durbin was also an exceptional bowler. If he was a full roller, he never taught his students that, and accepting that he is an exceptional bowler it took that extreme skill to change. Mike Durbin is an exceptional bowler one of the Elite.

Now you could learn to throw a 3/4 roller for the purpose of just varying your game. But if you are at 200 now, why change?

But once you get to 200, it is ever so much harder to advance beyond that no matter how you throw the ball. You have to be 100% on spares, all spares. Plus you have to be proficient on picking up the occasional makable split. Then you have to be proficient on how to avoid the big splits. Proficient on reading lane conditons under any circumstance any lane condition.

All this is NOT dependant on release. You have to be a robot and that doesn't matter how you release the ball.

Most bowlers settle on one or two drill patterns. It doesn't matter if they are 3/4 roller or full roller. Sure everyone will talk about having a ball drilled this way, that way, etc.....but when it all comes down to it, bowling in your league week in and week out and an occastional tournament.....you have a favorite drill and you stick with it.

I can tell you that at my own level, 205- 210, I have my own favorite drill pattern/s. And I use just a couple most of the time. But there's really no drill pattern out there that is going to be a magical solution that will get me over the 210 hump. Realizing what drill to use, on a variation of lane conditons (and you would have to be seeing different lane conditions often) is another step on the pyramid of knowledge. If you are in the same house couple houses in the same area from week to week, then the lane patterns are not going to be all that different and require such drastic changes.

If you were a 150 average bowler asking the same question then I would probably work on changing your release. But at the level you are currently at, I don't think it will help your game much beyond giving you a variable you can switch to at will. And if that were the case I'd want you to be about the 220 level to expect that kind of versatility.

Erin


Edited by Atochabsh (04/20/08 02:38 AM)

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.




BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
How to match a ball to the player's style?
by Joe Bowler - Today at 04:29 PM
Sign-up for Fall '14 V-league open (close 8/17)
by steveA - Today at 04:19 PM
New Targeting Formula
by Joe Bowler - Today at 04:00 PM
Input on my form and approaches
by Dennis Michael - Today at 03:10 PM
Problem hitting my target/mark.
by Dennis Michael - Today at 06:56 AM
Fall/Winter 2013-14 Leagues thread
by Richie V. - Yesterday at 09:59 PM
Approach Advice
by Smooth Stroker - Yesterday at 06:55 PM
2014 USBC Open Championships
by Richie V. - Yesterday at 01:47 PM
Ball Speed Calculator
by Joe Bowler - Yesterday at 12:01 PM
Storm IQ Tour Fusion Video Ball Review
by SteveH - Yesterday at 10:16 AM
My complete set of 8 PBA 2014 League jerseys!!!
by BIGHMW - 04/15/14 11:28 PM
So, got my first ball.....
by Lonemorf - 04/15/14 03:39 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2014 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.