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#53767 - 04/02/08 10:16 AM Any tips to stay behind/under the ball?
Let1Hang Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 34
A/S/L: 31/M/OH
I admit that I've got a release issue. Many people have stated that for a good release one must stay behind/under the ball but no one states how one could do this. I seem to be having a mental block on what I need to do to accomplish this. What should I concentrate on in order to achieve this proper ball/hand position prior to release? Any tips would be appreciated as I'm planning on practicing this evening.

Thanks in advance!

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#53768 - 04/02/08 10:21 AM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: Let1Hang]
infernocal Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1551
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The key is to keep the wrist straight or even slightly cupped from the set up, through the whole swing and up to the release. Some people would suggest a wrist brace to help you learn this position. Also try not to turn the wrist. The best course would be to get a coach.
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#53769 - 04/02/08 10:49 AM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: infernocal]
AmpleSound Offline
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Registered: 10/17/07
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Infernocal hit it spot on, not much more anyone could add... Good luck Let1Hang, hope you're able to get the idea if you cannot get a coach.
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#53770 - 04/02/08 11:00 AM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: infernocal]
Eraser Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1156
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
My first suggestion would be to get a coach. A wrist brace will help too.

What works for me is to start out in a position that allows your hand to stay under the ball. Start with your hand under the ball, elbows close to the hips, and ball held slightly right of the center of your body. Bring your pinky in tight to your hand and spread your first finger(pointer) far away from the middle finger. Your ring finger should be facing around 8 o'clock. Chris Barnes is a great example of a good starting ball position.

Keep your wrist slightly cupped through the release.
But a coach would be my first course of action, let them "show" you proper setup and release, and then you can go from there.
Once you have an idea, and see what you are supposed to do, ...then a lot of practice, practice , practice.
Good Luck!
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#53772 - 04/02/08 11:40 AM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: Let1Hang]
johnw1 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 274
A/S/L: 66/m/Wynantskill/ny/usa
Keep the inside of the elbow facing your target from start to finish in your delivery.

Need to have ring and middle fingers at 6 o'clock - 5:30 o'clock at the release point. Do not attempt to turn the ball. Think having those fingers "slicing" through the ball ending up at 1 o'clock.

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#53788 - 04/02/08 04:23 PM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: johnw1]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1663
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
You also need to not try and "help" the ball. Let your arm swing naturally. If you try to pull the ball through you'll have the tenancy to turn everything early. If you relax and let gravity do it's thing, it will turn on it's own when it's supposed to.

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#53790 - 04/02/08 04:27 PM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: Let1Hang]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1848
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
My Coach has a website with many tips on different aspects of Bowling Fundamentals, here is one of his tips on the bowler's release: http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm

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#53799 - 04/02/08 09:08 PM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: CoachJim]
sixbagger Offline
Bracket Donator

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 138
A/S/L: Indiana
I read that and was actually trying it until I told my local pro about the technique ... he told me that cupping wasnt something that he recommended especially for a newbie just learning to hook.

Either way I've found out that the release timing is the most important thing ... staying behind the ball until it reaches the slide heal then release the thumb and turnin to about 45d with the fingers lifting up through / around the ball. Getting the thumb out consistently is the biggest obstacle at least it was/is for me.

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#53802 - 04/02/08 10:01 PM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: sixbagger]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1848
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
I read that and was actually trying it until I told my local pro about the technique ... he told me that cupping wasnt something that he recommended especially for a newbie just learning to hook.


Ron always tells me if someone wants to learn to hook the ball, you might as well learn to do it right, why bother learning the wrong way and have to take years to unlearn and relearn like I have.

Quote:
Either way I've found out that the release timing is the most important thing ... staying behind the ball until it reaches the slide heal then release the thumb and turnin to about 45d with the fingers lifting up through / around the ball. Getting the thumb out consistently is the biggest obstacle at least it was/is for me.


The problem you are going to have is the fact that your thumb is not supposed to hang onto the ball, the ball is supposed to hang onto your thumb and the centrifugal force of the ball swinging from your shoulder is supposed to pull the ball from your thumb without effort at just the right moment without you having to release the thumb, this way it is repeatable as long as you don't interfere with it, like knuckling your thumb to hang onto the ball.

This is why I have been saying over and over how important it is to have the proper span, thumb size, thumb pitch, and finger pitches to be able to release the ball properly. If you are truly gifted and are able to release your thumb at exactly the right point every time, and there are such people, then put me on your ignore list, but the rest of us mortals you will need to spend some time and money with your local Pro Shop to get your grip exactly right.

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#53803 - 04/02/08 10:04 PM Re: Any tips to stay behind/under the ball? [Re: sixbagger]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1183
A/S/L: 33/M/Hampstead, NC
Originally Posted By: sixbagger
I read that and was actually trying it until I told my local pro about the technique ... he told me that cupping wasnt something that he recommended especially for a newbie just learning to hook.

There are varying degrees of wrist cupping; none (flat hand), slight (about 5-10 degrees), moderate (about 20-30 degrees) and a lot (over 30 degrees). You want a slight cup so the weight of the ball in your hand is more focused in the middle of your palm. If you have too much weight on your fingers (due to not cupping at all), then you might have a tendency to roll out of it too quick or come over the top of the ball. If you have too much weight towards your wrist with a massive cup, you might have a tendency to shortarm and muscle the shot (this is a problem I have when I cup my wrist too much). What was shown in the link is a slight cup.

Originally Posted By: sixbagger
Either way I've found out that the release timing is the most important thing ... staying behind the ball until it reaches the slide heal then release the thumb and turnin to about 45d with the fingers lifting up through / around the ball. Getting the thumb out consistently is the biggest obstacle at least it was/is for me.

Careful how you "turn" your wrist. It should not be a "brain movement", at least not 100%. It should be natural. The longer you stay behind or inside the ball, the more revs you will have if you come through consistently - and that's the key, consistently. But it takes practice and it is something that one needs a coach to help, especially being inside the ball for a long time. Staying behind the ball can be a feel thing. As CoachJim likes to say, think of leading the shot with your ring finger. That'll usually keep your hand in and behind the ball long enough.
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