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#50010 - 02/19/08 11:50 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: cgeorg]
Brian Longo Offline
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Registered: 05/23/06
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Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.

In the event that I haven't been clear (or apparently, I've been too wordy), let me repeat myself: I've nothing against any measure that gets people to appreciate and enjoy a new sport if said effort does not include mocking something else in an effort to grow the sport. Growth is necessary. Change is necessary. I agree with that 100%.

Nobody can tell me professional bowling hasn't changed in the past 15 years. Bowlers are now allowed "to be human" and show emotion. They can wear non-collared shirts as long as they're not t-shirts. It's quite ok when a bowler is in a groove and comes back to give high-fives to the people in attendance. It's also apparently not frowned upon when a bowler starts "talkin' smack" to another bowler when coming off the approach. Personally, I don't approve of this nor would I do this myself, but I'm not making the rules in the PBA, either.

Golf has boomed mainly because of Tiger. He's dominant. He's a very skilled player who rarely loses when he's in the lead. He's also very different than the previous "big names" because he's not white. That in itself has been, in my opinion, one of the main reasons why golf has increased in popularity recently, if not THE main reason. With someone like Tiger, it is perceived that "the old, white, stodgy folk" no longer have a stranglehold on the sport, and that golf is apparently a sport that anyone can enjoy. Now, Tiger didn't bastardize the sport, and he's certainly no gimmick, either. He simply played it to a level never seen before, and because he's not white, well, that's all the better. Had he been a "cookie-cut mould" that golf has had for over a century, I don't think it would be experiencing the growth it has.

But, and this is the crux of my argument, you don't hear announcers or other "laypeople" naming scores. A "double bogey" is a "double bogey", not a "turkey", not a "hambone", not a "s--t on a shingle". It's a "double bogey", and anyone not associated with the sport who tried to coin a new phrase would probably be ushered out of the announcer's booth hastily. People announcing golf who are not otherwise accomplished golfers dare not mock the sport because they respect the people who play it and respect its rich history. In my humble opinion, I do not think that's too much to ask from anyone.

Bowling has certain inherent challenges that golf doesn't have, mainly because it's an "inside sport", for one, and two, the "stigma of the bowler" (which, admittedly, I have contradicted myself on). The fact that, in bowling, there's "very few ways to make a play" doesn't lend itself to be something that's deemed "exciting" - certainly not like golf where there's over a million different shots you can play to get to get the ball into cup each round you play.

Again, I don't have problems with trying creative ways to get new bowlers. We need new bowlers, but we also need people willing to teach bowlers not only the fundamentals of the game, but the history and the "integrity" of the game. Otherwise, eventually, the sport will decline even more than it has and, if that happens, the PBA will cease to exist. But for the love of God, don't mock the sport or the terminology just to get bowlers (i.e., "sell out").
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#50011 - 02/19/08 11:51 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
General Pounder Offline
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We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.
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#50012 - 02/19/08 11:53 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Lefty]
Dennis Michael Offline
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I have a piece of paper signed by a psychiatrist that says I'm OK. And, I take offense to Randy's mockery.

Hambone, as spoken by a Bonehead.
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#50014 - 02/19/08 11:58 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Lefty]
Brian Longo Offline
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Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
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Originally Posted By: Lefty
Lol.. that's just the thing, he's NOT mocking the sport. He's having fun with it! And the fact that some people don't realize this makes them look like their butt cheeks are do tight that they couldn't pass a toothpick. Really, it comes across even more silly/stupid than turkey, hambone or both combined.

I don't see it as "having fun with it" as you mention, but again, that is my interpretation. Sorry if I don't see it your way, Lefty, and sorry if I seem as I can't be convinced otherwise.

Some people think the show "J a c k a s s" is funny, but I don't. I think it's stupid. I put Rob Stone up there with that show because, in my eyes, he is one.
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#50016 - 02/19/08 12:00 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: General Pounder]
Brian Longo Offline
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Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Originally Posted By: General Pounder
We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.

Provide me with a link, GP, and I'll happy to file my grievances.
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#50017 - 02/19/08 12:03 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Timotheus Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 446
A/S/L: 25/M/Syracuse, NY
Randy's not a sellout...its hard to be a sellout to something you don't have any real history with!

As it is, if Randy attracts new viewers and fans then bowling will grow, more revenue will be put into the sport, those fans will have more desire to go out and work at being able to bowl like their favorite pros, houses will work to attract more serious bowlers, ettiquette will be taught more, and overall the quality of the sport will improve. Of course this means that those of us that have been bowling seriously for years will have to put up with a greater inflow of recreational bowlers as well. Its a vicious circle that is unavoidable, yet imperative to the growth.

Really the biggest thing that will affect the way the house is set up and who it caters to is who the people that run it are. If they're just business people looking to make money, you'll see a lot of stuff for cosmic bowling and other recreational type attractions. If they're league or ex-league bowlers that take their own game seriously, you'll see more of a lean towards the serious bowler.
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#50019 - 02/19/08 12:08 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: General Pounder]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: General Pounder
We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.


Oh, it is on the PBA message board. See for yourself.

http://forum.pba.com/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/26/t/008978.html
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#50021 - 02/19/08 12:12 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
I don't see it as "having fun with it" as you mention, but again, that is my interpretation. Sorry if I don't see it your way, Lefty, and sorry if I seem as I can't be convinced otherwise.

Some people think the show "J a c k a s s" is funny, but I don't. I think it's stupid. I put Rob Stone up there with that show because, in my eyes, he is one.


Like I said, I really do get a laugh out of this anit-hambone movement so it's fine that you don't see it my way.

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#50022 - 02/19/08 12:16 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Brian Longo]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
First off, I just want to note that my comment about Augusta was aimed at Dennis's post about most honor scores being at the serious-bowler house.

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.


<snip>

But, and this is the crux of my argument, you don't hear announcers or other "laypeople" naming scores. A "double bogey" is a "double bogey", not a "turkey", not a "hambone", not a "s--t on a shingle". It's a "double bogey", and anyone not associated with the sport who tried to coin a new phrase would probably be ushered out of the announcer's booth hastily.


I have golfed since I was 3, very seriously for a while, and if someone wanted to give 6 over a par a name, I wouldn't care. I suppose on a par 4 I you could call it moose ears, but that's about it. Come on Johnny, what can you come up with?

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Bowling has certain inherent challenges that golf doesn't have, mainly because it's an "inside sport", for one, and two, the "stigma of the bowler" (which, admittedly, I have contradicted myself on).


Ask yourself, why is it an inside sport? I think the attitudes in most of the posts in this thread contain the answer.
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#50023 - 02/19/08 12:16 PM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Timotheus]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Timotheus
Randy's not a sellout...its hard to be a sellout to something you don't have any real history with!


Randy, as in Randy Pederson? The 13 time PBA titlist and 24th millionare in PBA history?

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