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#171385 - 09/23/12 08:48 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: champ]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: champ


All of this of course comes with the sidenote of: no ball will overcome delivery flaws. For ever dollar you spend on bowling balls, another ten dollars should be spend on practice and coaching.



You know, bowling is a tricky sport. The fact one person can score really well with a ball others can't score with, The fact one bowler can score really well at a specific ball speed when others (at that speed) can't, The fact one bowler can carry the corner pins when others can't should raise an eyebrow or two.

When talking "Baselines", well, baseline IS the name of the game. Baseline hand position, baseline ball path, baseline ball speed, baseline axis tilt and rotation, baseline ball reaction.

The best arsonal is one where your equipment has the ability to overlap to some degree. NO HOLES. Norm Duke said that Professional Bowlers are the best in the world at changing their ball speed. Ever wonder why they put so much emphasis on that? Or, how much practice time they've spent developing that ability?

By changing ball speed, that in itself gives you a different look, while using the same ball. Slower, more midlane read. Faster, easier path to the breakpoint. Of course, your entry angles still have to be there but that isn't ball speed as much as ball choice. It's not enough to simply chose a variety of balls, you need to know the intended reaction of the layout. It's not enough to simply chose a variety of layouts, they need to match up to the ball and your style.

I wish someone would come up with a graph to go off of, but so far we are left to our own "best guess". In the CNC world, we have slide scales. X amount of RPM's by X size drill equals optimal Feed Speed. Still, nobody (in their right mind) would try and feed a drill into stainless steel like they would aluminum. So, other factors are present. Bowling is the same thing, OIL LENGTH and STRENGTH (resistance).

You can get pretty much any ball to the pocket, but it's pretty obvious that isn't good enough. don't matter how hard you try, it just won't carry. On the flipside, you can put a ball anywhere near the pocket and it will carry. This is when you know you're getting close to figuring something out that works for YOU. Simple fact, you will never get to that point by throwing the same strength equipment. You have to have a wide variety and you need to learn to read the lane QUICKER. That takes time, time you have spending on practice..


Edited by metguy (09/23/12 09:02 PM)
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

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#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#174102 - 12/17/12 04:44 AM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
NaSTI Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 216
A/S/L: 33/M/Renton WA
Need some suggestions on my arsenal. I dont want to buy another ball, just want to work with what I got since im only bowling leagues on a THS currently.

IQ Tour - OOB 4000
Storm Triple X Factor - 500/1000 + polish
Storm Frantic - 4000
Storm Tropical Heat Pearl - OOB

I want to keep the OOB condition on my IQ Tour as is. The rest I would like some suggestions on surface changes to build my arsenal. Can I do so just by altering different grits and/or polish? What would you gurus suggest? I am open to resurfacing the rest of my equipment, and dont really know the best route to go. Thx in advance!
_________________________
My arsenal - Brunswick Mastermind, Storm Natural Pearl, Storm Reign of Power, Track MX10 and Track 505C2 High game - 300 High Series - 814
Avg. 2teens
08 Subaru STI 397whp/430wtq @ 20psi...hence the screen name

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#174107 - 12/17/12 08:05 AM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
NaSTI, the answer depends a lot on the lane conditions you bowl, the layouts on your equipment, cores, covers, your speed, revs, etc. Combining all of the variables can be tricky. I worked this out, once and for all, for myself and posted my strategy here. The link is http://www.bowlingcommunity.com/b/ubbthreads.php/topics/172968/4_Ball_Arsenal_Specs.html#Post172968

I have further simplified my stratgey by choosing one simple, optimimum layout. It is the same for all my equipment, symmetrical or asymmetrical. It places the Pin 3-3/8 inches from my PAP, and 6-3/4 inches from the center of my thumbhole. The thumb is then drilled through the mass bias marker. This layout produces near maximum flare for each ball. The goal is then to choose balls with different flare potential, in the range of 3-4", 4-5", 5-6", to ensure a varied arsenal.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#174144 - 12/18/12 05:59 AM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Also, I would not recommend changing the layout on a ball once it is drilled. Small changes to span and pitches are okay. But, once you have drilled into the core, you have effectively changed its shape. Ball plug is a uniform density so it cannot match the original multiple densities of cover, filler, and core. And, it has its own hardness and surface friction characteristics. That is especially important if the ball is likely to roll over one of the plugged holes. I'm all for experimenting, but be aware that significantly changing the layout (ex: Pin up to Rico drilling) can produce unpredictable or misleading results. It is much better to decide on the layout first before drilling a ball.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#174145 - 12/18/12 06:53 AM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
NaSTI Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 216
A/S/L: 33/M/Renton WA
Thanks again Joe Bowler, as all the other advice you have given me. Yeah your arsenal makes complete sense. Since you are taking away alot of variables, leaving it left to only flare potential of a ball and/or Rg rating will help alot. Then when youre in transition you will only need to reach in the bag for longer and longer equipment. Now I need to get more balls! Lol...but yes I completely understand your method of having the same layout, same cover surface and just let the flare potential decrease or increase when you need to make a switch.
_________________________
My arsenal - Brunswick Mastermind, Storm Natural Pearl, Storm Reign of Power, Track MX10 and Track 505C2 High game - 300 High Series - 814
Avg. 2teens
08 Subaru STI 397whp/430wtq @ 20psi...hence the screen name

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#174162 - 12/18/12 04:17 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Actually, the suggested 4-ball arsenal in the link above includes several variables: coverstock, surface prep, RG value, Diff value, MB value. All of the suggested values are different, not just the desired track flare. The reason for the differences is they each have an effect on hook shape as well as total hook. The goal is to match them up to provide the most effective combinations.

Personally, I have found success using only one layout, and allowing the characteristics of each ball to provide different reactions. And, depending on the lane conditions where I am bowling, I will sometimes do the same with surface prep, and take all of my equipment to 4000/polished, when the additional friction from sanding is not required.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#175903 - 02/03/13 02:05 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: Joe Bowler]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 705
A/S/L: 46 Male, Malta NY
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
Also, I would not recommend changing the layout on a ball once it is drilled. Small changes to span and pitches are okay. But, once you have drilled into the core, you have effectively changed its shape. Ball plug is a uniform density so it cannot match the original multiple densities of cover, filler, and core.


Seems we agree on some things, JB. I've still got a couple re-drills I obtained used but I'm working to phase them out. For example, I got my Mission off ebay, it was originally pin-up, I had it plugged and drilled pin-down. Who knows what RG or differential the ball really has anymore? I like the ball but if I had to replace it with something new, the same layout might just act a whole lot different (even on say, a Mission X which should be close to equivalent besides cover). Also, a ball with no plugs just seems to roll more true and hit better for me, all other things being equal. I don't concern myself with surface hardness of the plug and so on since I won't allow a plug to be in my track and neither should anyone's Pro Shop, still... I'm over re-drills.

I kind of blinked when I saw your strategy of using the same layout on all your gear but when it sunk in I saw the logic in it. My strategy is different... I tend to ask my Pro Shop to lay out a ball according to it's strength.

When I bought my Reign I was looking for something to retain a lot of energy, so I had it drilled pin up. I did the same with my Roto Grip Bandit, and have the Berserk laid out about the same to work for me when I want the same shape but a little more traction. Likewise if I was shopping for something like a Violent Eruption I'm sure I'd go pin-up.

On the other hand when I bought my Mission I wanted something "rolly" that would pick up earlier, I had it re-drilled pin-down and I keep it at 1000 Abralon with a light touch of 2000.

These work for me but your strategy is interesting and I'm going to give it some thought.
_________________________
Thug, Vandal Smash, Diva Divine, Diva, Diva Pearl, Hooligan, Maxim, Super Natural,
2015-2016 House Average 218 Summer 2015 House Average 220 2014-2015 House Average 218, 2013-2014 House Average 214 2013-14 PBAX Average 201

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#175907 - 02/03/13 08:44 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Sounds good, Rick. "The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways." Knowing yourself, your game, your equipment, your lane play strategy, etc., will all benefit your improvement as a bowler. One question to ask yourself is what was unique about those times that you rolled your honor scores. For example, what were the lane conditions? What ball/surface/layout did you use? Where were you standing? Once you accumulate enough of these experiences, you will likely see patterns that will help you understand even more clearly what works best for you in a variety of circumstances.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#178431 - 04/30/13 10:08 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: CoachJim]
bigcall Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 202
A/S/L: 50/M/NoVA
What are the characteristics of a benchmark ball?

My sense is that it's not something on the high end, but rather something in the middle of the road that you can adjust from.

I currently have 3 balls that I'm using:

Rotogrip Dagger - more or less what I consider a benchmark but not sure if it truly qualifies
Rotogrip Mutant Cell Pearl - for more oil
AMF Angle - dry and for spares (OK, I know it's ancient)

Was thinking I might need to expand the arsenal and go with a pure plastic ball for spares or something more this century than the Angle?

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#178443 - 05/01/13 01:59 PM Re: Building an Arsenal [Re: bigcall]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 705
A/S/L: 46 Male, Malta NY
Originally Posted By: bigcall
What are the characteristics of a benchmark ball?

Rotogrip Dagger - more or less what I consider a benchmark but not sure if it truly qualifies


The idea of the Nomad Dagger as a benchmark ball works for me. Hybrid cover in the mid-performance category, medium RG (although on the high side of medium). If anything it's got a little more diff than I'd tend to choose for a benchmark ball but that is fine. Unless it has a wonky layout, you've got a good benchmark ball there IMO.
_________________________
Thug, Vandal Smash, Diva Divine, Diva, Diva Pearl, Hooligan, Maxim, Super Natural,
2015-2016 House Average 218 Summer 2015 House Average 220 2014-2015 House Average 218, 2013-2014 House Average 214 2013-14 PBAX Average 201

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