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#50592 - 02/25/08 12:28 PM A few questions for all the power groove guys.....
djbowlin Offline
Bantam

Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 17
A/S/L: 28/m/cincinnati ohio
Hello all...

I have recently picked up the game of bowling...

I first started out getting a columbia scout this christmas and had it drilled conventional to throw a straight ball and after learning a bit about the game i got pretty decent at it with my highest game being 212 with 6 in a row... with that being said i decided to step it up and learn to hook.

Last week i went to the Pro Shop and they recommended the power groove. So i bought one and had it drilled for finger tip grip and had inserts put in.

I just got to try it out last saturday and have some questions.
I could bearly get the ball to hook and when i could it would do it in the last few feet before the pins and it would hook maybe 3 boards or so. I know since i am new that im gonna have to work more to get the release down. but here are my questions...

where is your pin in relation to your ring finger? (mine is directly 1" above the ring finger hole)

Is it normal to watch it have sideways rotation while in the oil and then hit the dry portion of the lane and lose the rotation and roll straight? (even outside the second arrow from the middle as well as inches from the gutter)

Is it normal to have you fingers to be sore but not hurt for your first time throwing finger tip grips and a hook?

Is the ball supposed to hook more or is mine drilled to have a mild hook on it and is that supposed to help me in the long run?

Any help or advice will be appreciated...

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#50596 - 02/25/08 01:08 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys..... [Re: djbowlin]
Timotheus Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 446
A/S/L: 25/M/Syracuse, NY
From what I know, the Power Groove is more of a light oil ball which means that if you get into medium to heavy oil it will be harder for it to hook. Working on your release is probably the best way to get hook out of it.

I don't have a power groove myself, but normal ball characteristics are a slide through the oil (the sideways rotation in your case) then bite and start to break back near the pin deck. For your ball it sounds like its doing what its supposed to do but due to it being a fairly non-aggressive ball combined with a work in progress release it doesn't have the break back once it hits the dry boards and instead simply goes straight back. I may be wrong as I don't have an actual image of what your ball does, but that's what it sounds like to me.

As for the soreness in your fingers, that's natural. You're using them in a way they aren't used to, same as if you started lifting weights or ran a long distance. Give it a couple days and your fingers will be fine from there out.
_________________________
15.5lb MoRich Nsane LevRG (medium and medium-heavy)
15lb Roto-Grip Cell (heavy oil)
16lb Colombia White Dot (spares and extreme dry)
16lb Roto-Grip Neptune (light and dry)

High game: 300
High series: 779

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#50605 - 02/25/08 02:42 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: djbowlin]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Is it normal to watch it have sideways rotation while in the oil and then hit the dry portion of the lane and lose the rotation and roll straight? (even outside the second arrow from the middle as well as inches from the gutter)


That is exactly what happens. You release the ball with some amount of side rotation, the ball maintains the side rotation until it encounters friction, after this point the ball changes direction and stops going in the direction it was thrown in and starts to roll straight with the boards until the friction and the side rotation decide if there is enough side rotation left to have the ball roll in that direction or if there was too much friction and the ball has lost all of it's side rotation.

There are several tips in Ron Clifton's tip archive regarding the proper release at www.bowl4fun.com read as much as you can and post back any questions you may have.

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#50624 - 02/25/08 04:39 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: CoachJim]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
First let me welcome you to the site Djbowlin.

I don't exactly have the Power Groove, I have its brother the Groove which has a different shell/coverstock. I use it for drier conditions. I can use it in one house I bowl in because the house is light oil, with a short pattern most of the time. I typically play the first arrow with it, sometimes an inch or two in, and sometimes I have to point it towards the pocket. I'm not sure how fast you throw the ball, but too much speed will not allow it to hook. I throw around 17-18 and sometimes faster or slower. You could be literally throwing the ball to hard for it to react especially with a release that is in the works, but you do sound like you are getting the basic ball reaction just not with a lot of movement.
_________________________
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HS:763

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#50643 - 02/25/08 08:37 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
I will echo InfernoCal. Hook is created by coverstock, ball speed, release, and to a smaller extent, core and drilling. But coverstock, ball speed, and release take up the meat of the hook potential. My son, god bless him, isn't a great bowler yet. But he can make a white dot hook quite a bit. the reason is because of his slow ball speed. I guess it runs in the family. I would say that you ball speed exceeds rev rate. That's why it doesn't hook much. Lower your speed until you see a bigger reaction. The same is true of any ball. If you took the biggest hook monster on the market and threw it 30 miles per hour. You would need a ton of revs to get a wrinkle out of it. Any ball's hook potential depends on the ball speed and release that is used.
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IQ Tour Fusion
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#50646 - 02/25/08 09:50 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: Smooth Stroker]
djbowlin Offline
Bantam

Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 17
A/S/L: 28/m/cincinnati ohio
how does one measure their ball speed ? do you use a stop watch and the lane?

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#50648 - 02/25/08 10:00 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: djbowlin]
djbowlin Offline
Bantam

Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 17
A/S/L: 28/m/cincinnati ohio
also i have been reading alot since i have decided to start bowling with a hook and there seems to be alot of conflicting information out there ...

coach jim ... you mentioned Ron Clifton's tip archive where in his release tips he talkes about a 45 and 90 degree position with your hand behind the ball ...

other places i have read talk about keeping your hand under the ball as in "below the equator" and pushing thru the ball

is the first a stroker release while the second is a cranker release? i am finding it a pain to piece information together becuase it is different where ever you look and few coaching sites and video clips talk about the actual release and stick to the pendulum swing as well as ball placement for different speeds...

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#50657 - 02/25/08 10:59 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: djbowlin]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Below the equator and the 45 and 90 degree positions are two different things. You can be below the equator and be at 90 degrees. The degrees are how far around the side of the ball your hand is, with 90 degrees being on the side and perpendicular to your body, and 45 being half way in between 90 degrees and 0 degrees which is straight up the back of the ball. At the same time the fingers should be below the equator until the thumb comes out and then they push through the ball as the hand is starting to come around the ball.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

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#50770 - 02/27/08 12:45 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
saabbowler Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 129
A/S/L: 30/Male/St. Louis, MO
I have a Power Groove Reactive (I assume that's the ball you have as well). This ball is good on medium oil to all but the driest of lane conditions. It works great up the side. If the ball isn't hooking, move further right. I usually play it at about the 11th board, let it float out to the 8th. The ball has a standard core, except it has "flip weights" on the side. So, it's action is a bit different. You can actually see the ball flip over. It will roll out of the hook, so carry sometimes can be an issue with this ball. Once you get more comfortable with throwing a hook, I recommend the Vapor Zone from Brunswick. Drilled for length on a roller layout, it has better driving power than the Power Groove, and works better in heavier oil.
_________________________
Dennis Hyman

The Arsenal:

Ball 1: 14# Brunswick Vapor Zone (Medium Oil)
Ball 2: 14# Track 714C (Heavy Oil/Long Oil)
Ball 3: 14# Brunswick Avalanche Slide (Dry)
Ball 4: 14# Columbia White Dot (Spare)

HGS: 258
HSS: 695

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#50876 - 02/28/08 09:40 PM Re: A few questions for all the power groove guys. [Re: saabbowler]
sixbagger Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 135
A/S/L: Indiana
I was where you are not that many weeks ago ...

I have found the slower I roll the ball the more it hooks. If I get my speed up, the ball will roll straight.

I used the Clifton article on the 45d release to teach me to hook - I'm sure I looked funny going up the the foul lane and standing there swinging the ball, but it sure showed me that the ball was more than capable of hooking.

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