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#135311 - 09/15/10 04:54 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info ***** [Re: 13strikes]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
ha!ha!ha! yes coach jim regular price for used balls here as long as it looks fresh is $50. $40 is a bargain but should be one plug only. invasion 2 months old is being sold at $100.
another question coach my brother gave me his infinite one did'nt plug it yet and tried it. layout is pin right of ring finger and mb75 degrees next to thumb balance hole low along val it goes long but hits flat change the grit to 1200 went a bit longer but still hits flat.don't know the original specs- if i go pin up 33/8 between fingers and mb 45 degrees will it give me snap? its rg is 2.46 rg. diff. is .056 am i thinking the right layout? if not i just return it my brother. thanks again


Sorry I didn't see your reply, 13 Strikes. The infinite one is not a snappy ball so you will not get much snap out of it no matter how you drill it, it is a early hooking heavy rolling ball that makes a slow arc to the pocket unless you drill it very weak like a 6" pin to pap with the pin close to the val or some other extreme drilling, with a ton of polish I doubt you will get much snap out of it.

If you are looking for a snappy move at the break point, try a pearlized ball that will go longer. This will save the energy for the back end of the lane and give you the snap you are looking for.

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Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#145520 - 02/01/11 10:21 PM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
scoobydoo6906 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 102
A/S/L: 29/male/sarasota,fl
ok layout questions. so i understand the basic difference between pin above the fingers and below i think. what i don't understand is how one is really any better for any one thing than an other. i mean couldn't you just drill your balls the same and adjust the surface for conditions and have a few different strengths of balls to match up?

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#145541 - 02/02/11 02:24 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: scoobydoo6906]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: scoobydoo6906
ok layout questions. so i understand the basic difference between pin above the fingers and below i think. what i don't understand is how one is really any better for any one thing than an other. i mean couldn't you just drill your balls the same and adjust the surface for conditions and have a few different strengths of balls to match up?


For the most part the surface is like a macro adjustment and the layout a micro adjustment. It's all about fine tuning your reaction, they both can have similar effects on the reaction, but I think the cover has a much bigger effect.

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#145546 - 02/02/11 06:32 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: scoobydoo6906]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
The main difference is pin carry, when one isn't carrying, the other might.

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#159493 - 12/16/11 10:50 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
Hunter Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/15/11
Posts: 382
A/S/L: 29/M/Jacksonville, FL
Coach Jim. I wish I knew about you and this website before I moved from Herndon down here to Florida last year...Goodness!

How do I know if the guy drilling the ball at a shop is knowledgeable enough, or cares enough about what you want? When I bought my Slingshot this summer, I printed out 2 diagrams from Brunswicks webpage that were for more "angled" attacks and "longer", so that I could continue my Tweener style.

The guy at the Pro Shop didn't drill it out based on the Brunswick pictures at all. I guess he "knew" what would be best based on my track. He didn't even bother to see how I bowl.

I'm looking to buy a newer ball that gives me more of a backend Angle attack, hopefully I can make an informed decision on another threads progress. I want to make sure I find a Pro Shop that will listen to what I want to get out of the ball, and then see how I throw the ball, and drill from those conclusions.

Any connections to Jacksonville, FL?
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#159541 - 12/17/11 07:41 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: Hunter]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I think Jimmy Martin's shop is not far from Jacksonville, I could be wrong though, he is on this site, do a search and send him an email. He is a very knowledgeable bowler and driller and will do a great job for you.

I do feel that if you learned more on how to bowl you would be able to make the ball you have do what you want. Jimmy can do anything with a bowling ball if you have a chance to see him bowl do so, you will see what I'm talking about, he can play straight up the boards or stand in front of the ball return all with the same ball.


Edited by CoachJim (12/17/11 07:45 AM)

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#159542 - 12/17/11 08:57 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
CoachJim, would it be fair to say that when you get a ball drilled up "Its not drilled even close to its maximum" potential?

If thats correct, what would you say the normal strength % would be for the average bowler walking in off the street?

I would expect the "red flags" or warning signs you are about to purchase a watered down version of a great ball would be if the driller doesn't ask for specifics such as pap or rev rate. Would you agree?


Edited by metguy (12/17/11 09:03 AM)
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#159545 - 12/17/11 10:43 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9527
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Metguy, I really haven't had experiences like you mention.

My driller starts by taking a new customer out to the lane and watches them bowl. He can get a very quick assessment. Then, he measures and positions his PAP based on the oil rings on the ball.

He goes through a series of questions like: how long do you want the ball to roll? What do you want to do with the ball? What type of lanes do you bowl on? What are the oil patterns? Do you want length or an early roll? An arc or a snap? and a whole bunch more.

He then asks if the bowler has seen any ball he is interested in, and what it was. After familiarizing himself with the bowler's ability, the bowler's intent, and the type of ball he is interested in, will the driller offer an opinion.

He usually offers 3-4 balls for consideration, including the one the bowler identified. And, he will usually give a couple at different price points. He narrows the selection of the bowler by asking a few more questions regarding price, how much use it will get, bowler's habits like cleaning, and how often. Then steers the bowler to a choice between 2 balls.

Once the bowler selects a ball, the driller fully explains how a layout will affect the ball in distance from PAP to pin, angles, position of pin, cg, or MB. The bowler actually makes choices in this process. If a weight hole is needed, he explains why and where it should be.

At the end, he makes the bowler feel that he has individualized and customized a ball specifically for himself based on the choices made.

I have seen him do this on numerous occasions. And, every bowler has gone away satisfied. Only to return to buy his next ball.

If a bowler wants a strong ball, but bowls on weak lanes, the driller explains what may happen. He will offer an opinion on a weaker drill for a strong ball, or the reverse. He really tries to match the ball, the drill and the bowler.
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#159625 - 12/19/11 05:45 PM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
Hunter Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/15/11
Posts: 382
A/S/L: 29/M/Jacksonville, FL
I am so disappointed in the Pro Shop I used for my Slingshot. After trying to learn as much as I could in a short amount of time as a "noobie" bowler, this guy didn't drill based on how I bowl or asked him at all.

Based on Brunswick's site for Symmetrical balls, and that I wanted it to be a LONG and STRONG backend, with a High Track the PIN should have been over my ring finger hole...but he put it to the right.




Edit: Oh I put a piece of tape over a circle that is on the ball, it probably is important to note where it is.


Edited by Hunterx (12/19/11 05:46 PM)
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#159633 - 12/19/11 07:56 PM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: Hunter]
Kitten Latch Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 211
A/S/L: 19/M/Australia
Originally Posted By: Hunterx
I am so disappointed in the Pro Shop I used for my Slingshot. After trying to learn as much as I could in a short amount of time as a "noobie" bowler, this guy didn't drill based on how I bowl or asked him at all.

Based on Brunswick's site for Symmetrical balls, and that I wanted it to be a LONG and STRONG backend, with a High Track the PIN should have been over my ring finger hole...but he put it to the right.


Edit: Oh I put a piece of tape over a circle that is on the ball, it probably is important to note where it is.


Did he measure based off your PAP? If your PAP was a little down that could very well be a typical long and strong layout for you.

And in a ball like the Slingshot, drilling is only going to affect ball motion by like 10%, 15% max. You as a bowler and the surface of the bowling ball will affect it much much more.
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