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#54684 - 04/15/08 02:48 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info ***** [Re: CoachJim]
Blitzballer Offline
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Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 36
A/S/L: Ca, USA
Originally Posted By: CoachJim


If you have a lower track, then the pin over the middle fingers is probably more like 5" than 6" that is why it still flares so much.

This is why it is important to measure ball layouts from the pap instead of from where the pin is on your grip. If you measure from the pap you will be able to match your ball reaction better to what you want.


Normally on all my other bowling balls i have a high track about an inch left of the middle finger and is slightly inverted
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#54688 - 04/15/08 07:30 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: Blitzballer]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Normally on all my other bowling balls i have a high Track about an inch left of the middle finger and is slightly inverted


Well the person whose track is right next to the finger holes would have a 6" pin to pap distance and you would have a 5" pin to pap distance and thus get more flare, we are only talking about 1" making that much of a difference and it does. I meant lower track than someone with a higher track than yourself, not a spinner type track.

This is why you can't judge a drilling by where the pin is located, you have to measure from the pap. One of the guys I bowl with, he has a pin over the bridge and it is a leverage drilling for him because he has a low track. For you the pin would be next to the ring finger for the same drilling, for me that would be 4 1/2" from my pap because my track is higher than yours.

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#69106 - 10/21/08 06:27 PM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
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#69682 - 10/29/08 08:17 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
The PAP is used for laying out the ball - unless you are standing there with the pencil doing the layout, you don't need to know it. That said, I would be most higher level bowlers know their PAP.

I think that a lot of drillers, especially if they don't know you well, will assume that you are like most people, and know little to nothing about equipment. Over half of the people in my last league would sand their ball to get more hook, over and over, even though their ball was overhooking, leaving splits and rolling out. I went to the Pro Shop in the center to have my Big One polished. "Wait, polish?" Yeah, I would like it polished. "Are you sure?" Yes, take it to 1500 and polish, I want more length! "Ok..." He still didn't seem to want to do it.

I now have a good relationship with a different Pro Shop. He knows that I know a little, and most importantly, I know what I want. While he probably wouldn't let just anyone do it, on my last 2 balls, he let me lay them out, gave me feedback on making sure it was drillable (not drilling through half the pin, keeping the static weights legal), and punched it up for me. Would that happen if someone he didn't know had walked in? Probably not. I think that the importance of building a relationship with your pro-shop cannot be under-estimated.
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#70050 - 11/04/08 07:19 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
[censored-bu], have you read MoRich's dual angle drilling system?

If not here it is: http://www.morichbowling.com/MosCorner/DualAngleSeminar/DualAngleSeminar.htm

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#70054 - 11/04/08 07:37 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Originally Posted By: [censored-bu]
Okay.

Well, I have a Twisted Fury drilled with fingers underneath the pin which is center. Is this a 45 degree drilling as I would assume?


The fingers have nothing to do with it. It's angle between the Pin-MB line and the Pin-PAP line. It's all in the link that has been posted twice now.
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#70133 - 11/04/08 11:52 PM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: CoachJim]
NordicBuwl Offline
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Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 3
A/S/L: 24/M/CA
Good info here thanks for the links

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#70142 - 11/05/08 06:47 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Just to clarify a few terms:

PSA = Preferred Spin Axis. When any ball is thrown the track will migrate until the ball is revolving around the PSA. The PSA and Mass Bias are the same thing Mass Bias is a Mo Pinel term, since he invented it he can call it what ever he likes. The faster the ball migrates to the PSA, the stronger the Mass Bias of the ball. Symmetrical balls don't have a mass bias no matter how far the cg is away from the pin, the ball will never spin out to a psa.

VAL = Vertical Axis Line. this is the line from the positive axis point (PAP) and the Negative Axis Point. The distance the pin is from this line determines how much energy the ball expends when it encounters friction. The closer the pin is to the val the more quickly the ball will give up it's energy when it encounters friction.

PAP = Positive Axis Point. The PAP is the point the ball revolves around on it's first rotation off your hand. After the first rotation, this point migrates to the PSA.

Many of the reaction characteristics of static weights described on Jeff's old ball reaction page that you posted earlier are not relevant any more. Static weights have been proven to have little to no affect on ball motion. Variables in drillings that affect ball motion:

1. Core Strength is determined by:
a. RG = Radius of Gyration which determines how fast the ball will rotate. The RG is measured by the distance away from the center of the ball to the outer mass of the core as it rotates. RG is the distance the spinning figure skater's arms are from the center of the skater. The closer the arms get to the skater, the faster the skater spins. The lower the RG the closer the outer mass of the core spins to the center of the core.
b. Differential = The difference from the rg measured with the pin at the pap and 6 3/4" away from the pap. The larger the difference, the more the ball will flare.

2. Distance from the pin to the pap. The closer the pin is to the pap the lower the rg of the ball.

3. Distance from the pin to the val.

4. Distance from the mass bias to the pap. The closer the mass bias is to the pap the quicker the ball uses it's energy when it encounters friction.

5. Weight Hole placement.

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#70210 - 11/06/08 05:18 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
What don't you understand about the dual angle system, I thought it was very well explained?

The type of ball depends on the type of bowler and the line being played. Tommy Jones would use a different type of ball than Walter Ray who would use a different type of ball than, Danny Wiseman.

The drilling pattern for a long oil pattern of over 48 ft would have low angle numbers if you look at the chart in the dual angle system you would want the ball to lose it's energy as soon as it encounters dry so the ball has a chance to get into a good roll before it hits the pocket. So you would want the pin to be close to the val and the mass bias to be close to the pap with a weight hole on the mass bias. You would want a strong drilling at first until the oil broke down, then you would quickly switch to a weak drilling in the same ball or similar ball. Once the pattern broke down farther you would use a medium pearl ball with a lower pin and mb farther from the pap to play the worn area in the pattern.

Long patterns of 48' or more are played to break point zone 3 between the 10 board and 15 board depending on the length of the pattern. Straighter players sometimes have luck pointing the ball off the gutter and play a direct line to the break point/pocket. A fall back shot also can provide decent scoring where the ball is started on the Brooklyn side of the head pin and the oil drifts the ball back into the pocket, it sometimes helps to envision shooting the 5-9 spare (5-8 for lefties) when playing this line because the ball hooks so little it helps to keep your perspective if you think spare shot.

For short patterns you would want the opposite, you want the ball to store as much energy for as long as possible that way the ball doesn't roll out before hitting the pocket. So you would use higher angles, meaning pin farther from the val and mb farther from the pap. Stronger patterns are used to prevent jumpy ball reaction on fresh oil, once the pattern breaks down longer pin to pap distances in weaker equipment are used. Stronger balls burn quicker and prevent high rev shots from jumping on the nose which is why you see high rev players like TJ using the NVD on the cheetah.

Short patterns require the ball to be played from break point zone 1 (between the gutter and 5 board). Since you are looking at 23 feet or more of dry boards between the end of the pattern and the pocket, you need to give the ball enough room to hook and enough speed to prevent it from burning out.


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#70382 - 11/09/08 08:01 AM Re: Basic Drill Pattern Info [Re: ]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Let me know if you have any more questions, I will try my best to help you understand.

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