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#49987 - 02/19/08 10:26 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
After coming back to this game from a 25 year respite, I find that it has changed drastically. And, not only in the technology of balls and lanes, but how it is respected, or more commonly, disrespected.

When My father would go to bowl, it was a serious endeavor. The Bowling shirt was hung and freshly pressed. His sponsor was proudly embroidered on the back of his shirt. His ball was waiting by the door. His shoes shined. And all 48 lanes of bowlers were doing the same.

When I returned, wearing a collared shirt was out of place. Concentrating on bowling was disturbed by others who couldn't care less about the people on the next lanes. The general public who were bowling were people who I would not associate with outside of the lanes. What has happened to our sport?

Gimics like Cosmic, beer and pizza bowl, and others have diminished the status of the sport to one where unsavory types thrive in the lanes. These people have no interest in this sport. They have no respect for those who do.

Bowling used to be a physically taxing sport, where bodily control was utmost important. Now, who cares? Speed is king. Two fingers is cool. Flip the ball as much as you can, and who cares who you disturb in doing it.

I can see that this unsavory type of patron has forced the real bowlers out of the lanes, and have given our sport a stigma of just what Brian said. Beer drinking, tank top, no mannered boors.

There are signs in store windows that people dressed like this cannot enter. Then why the Bowling alley? The proprietors have let this get out of hand. And, in some cases, have promoted this to happen for the sake of the almighty dollar.

I find it a shame, that I have to find another house to bowl in because the one that I returned to, now caters to this clientel. It is a mockery, and a slap in the face for this sport.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#49989 - 02/19/08 10:37 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Whether the phrase "turkey" is ridiculous or not is open to interpretation, and apparently your interpretation is pretty contradictory to the majority of bowlers, so I'll take what you have to say on that matter with a grain of salt.


So you care that non-bowlers think bowlers are fat sweaty guys in white beaters but you don't care that non-bowlers will find "turkey" just as ridiculous as "hambone"? It doesn't matter it's historical reference. It sounds silly. Personally I don't care that it sounds silly. If someone pointed out that it sounded silly (like Stone did), I'd laugh and agree with them. I also don't care if someone came up with another phrase that sounded just as silly.

Quote:
"Hambone" has no historical reference, just some stupid blabbermouth who decided to think of something "cute" to come after "turkey". As I mentioned in another thread, had it been someone with some ties to the sport that came up with it, I probably wouldn't mind, but I don't care too much for some idiot who probably thought bowling wasn't a "legitimate sport" before he was sent to work the telecasts coining a new phrase.

And I never particularly cared for what "outsiders" thought of bowling or the "stigma" it carried.


If you want professional bowling to have a future, you should start caring, because without more viewership and support, there won't be a PBA tour anymore.

Quote:
To me, it's all about respect. I believe it's disrespectful to "add color" to something that didn't require color. It would be no different, in my eyes, as me walking into another industry that I knew nothing of and creating a whole new set of jargon and trying to get everyone to use it or to like it. It's just not kosher. If the "man" (and I use that term loosely) had a modicum of respect for bowling, he would've at least run it by a few people "in the know" instead of blurting it out and thinking he's all cool because he coined a new phrase. It...just...ain't...cool.

If you wish to let it roll of your back, so be it. That's your choice entirely and I respect that. I choose not to just "let it be", and I won't be shy about voicing my displeasure. I see nothing gained by "adding another item to the menu", so to speak, other than to "spice up" something that had enough flavor to begin with. Now, his "ten pin party in the pit" is cool, and actually pretty creative, since it doesn't lend itself to "naming a series of strikes". He can use that all day and it wouldn't bother me. "Hambone", though, just strikes a nerve.


Honestly you've got some issues to deal with here. Anyone outside of bowling is going to think that Turkey sounds silly. That has nothing do with the stigma bowling has. You're not going convince anyone it's not silly or make bowling look any better by getting upset over the fact that it really is a silly phrase. Stone represents the vast majority of people who "turkey" sound silly to. We can either accept this, laugh with them while they get introduced to the game or we can get mad and alienate even more potential viewers and fans.

Thou doth protest too much.

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#49991 - 02/19/08 10:39 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Quote:

*snip* I assume your point with those quotes was to show some sort of contradiction? Not so. I was merely pointing out what "the outsiders" thought of the sport and what I thought of the sport. I know what people think about it.


Yes, it was contradictory. If you didn't care, why would you say "bad enough". If you didn't care, you wouldn't think it was bad.

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#49992 - 02/19/08 10:49 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Lefty]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Fine, so when a new bowler asks me where turkey came from, I can tell him that the sport of bowling was trying to do its part to help people in the depression as well as keep their doors open. When a new bowler asks me where Hambone came from, I can tell them that some no nothing made it up as a TV comedic act. And, it means NOTHING.

I actually feel some sense of pride that there is History in our Sport. Those who don't care about our sport have no respect for it.
And why? Because to them, it is NOT a sport.

It's this recreational excuse for beer drinking that has taken over. Just count how many serious bowlers there are in the total number of patrons. Very few. And, while that number diminishes, so does our sport.

Some people drink a beer while they bowl. Many bowl while they drink.

I have to give a lot of credit to those Junior Coaches who have spent their weekend time to train the proper respect to this game. It is a shame that all too many others don't take that opportunity.

I belong to a tennis club, and the first thing they do is test your ability level. Based on their assessment, the player is relegated to certain time slots, and like level competition. They wouldn't think of mixing novices with accomplished players.

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#49993 - 02/19/08 10:53 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Gimics like Cosmic, beer and pizza bowl, and others have diminished the status of the sport to one where unsavory types thrive in the lanes. These people have no interest in this sport. They have no respect for those who do.

Bowling used to be a physically taxing sport, where bodily control was utmost important. Now, who cares? Speed is king. Two fingers is cool. Flip the ball as much as you can, and who cares who you disturb in doing it.

I can see that this unsavory type of patron has forced the real bowlers out of the lanes, and have given our sport a stigma of just what Brian said. Beer drinking, tank top, no mannered boors.

Excellent point, and I'll bring up a reference to your observation from last night.

Monday night is a scratch league. Now, not everyone is a 200+ average bowler, but it is still a competitive and serious league. I was bowling 3 pairs down from a group of 20-25 year olds who were open bowling, one of which is a league bowler at the center I bowl at.

Talk about boorish; the girl who was with the league bowler was somewhat tipsy before she walked in the door, but as the night wore on, she became louder and was yelling quite often and was obviously drunk. It got to the point where she was such a distraction that her antics caused the bowlers on the pair left of us (which started the league pairings) to have to stop in mid-approach on more than one occasion. Complaints were lodged at the counter. The manager (who also bowls on the scratch league) said something to the girl and her boyfriend. Apparently all this did was agitate her and cause her to become more belligerent.

Now, she wasn't vulgar, but she was antagonizing to the point that she yelled, "don't y'all hear me? Wooooooooooo!" on a few occasions. The fact that she was acting like a drunken idiot didn't bother me too much. I half-expected it because she had on house shoes and was using a house ball. But the fact that her boyfriend, a league bowler, wasn't trying to settle the situation was most disturbing. Had it been me, I'd have been very embarrassed and quite apologetic to the league bowlers nearby, and would have stopped bowling and taken her out of there. I'm sure, though, he will get a few dirty looks and probably get a few nasty comments the next time he bowls in his league.

But, yeah, it's the lack of respect that was displayed last night that irritates me. Now, I'm friends with the manager, and he dealt with it in a timely manner, but with revenues as they are, I'm sure he was torn between "the dollar" and the rest of the league. Make no mistake, the bowlers beside this loudmouth, even the open bowlers, had their fair share of complaints after the drunken loudmouth left, and the manager was distraught, but sadly, it's the dollar that is most vocal. I can empathize with his position. I've been there a few times. I planned on saying something to both the bowler and his girlfriend as I was leaving, but they took off rather quickly after they finished their game.
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#49994 - 02/19/08 11:03 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Brian Longo]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I bowl at 2 different houses. In the larger chain house, this activity would have been ignored, and more of this type eventually come in.

The other house which caters to bowlers, would have thrown her out, and anyone with her.

That is the difference.
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#49995 - 02/19/08 11:04 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Fine, so when a new bowler asks me where turkey came from, I can tell him that the sport of bowling was trying to do its part to help people in the depression as well as keep their doors open. When a new bowler asks me where Hambone came from, I can tell them that some no nothing made it up as a TV comedic act. And, it means NOTHING.


Oh. My. God. It means NOTHING! Call the police. Get the FBI involved. Someone made a funny and this is bowling after all. There's no laughing in bowling. There's no laughing in bowling! How can we possibly tell someone that someone else found "Turkey" just as funny as this new person and came up with another funny sounding name for 4 in a row? Inconceivable! Do you know WHY we can't tell them this? There's NO laughing in bowling!

It's a good thing we have other sports like baseball and football and basketball were we can laugh and come up with silly expressions.

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#49996 - 02/19/08 11:06 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Look at the music from the era of bowling you guys are trying to preserve. Look at how that music is doing now. Do you want the same to happen to the sport? Society has changed - if bowling wants to keep up with it, just as every other successful sport has, it must change as well. People will never become serious about bowling if they never want to go to the lanes because they have to press their bowling shirt to gain admittance. They will go bowling if they can go and have fun doing it. Some of them will catch the bug. Some will continue to use the time as a social experience, and nothing more. But they will keep the sport alive so that we can enjoy it.

I coached gymnastics for a little while. Class kids paid 4-5 times as much per hour as the competitive team kids, in addition to requiring less skilled staff. The gym could not run without the class kids. Sometimes, that means the team kids need to train at odd hours, or give up some time on the equipment for the class. But without the class, the team could not exist.
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#49997 - 02/19/08 11:08 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Over the past couple of years, I noticed that there were more Honor scores at particular houses in our Association. I took it upon myself to see why.

The answer is not an easier shot, wood over synthetic, or anything like that. The answer is that some houses cater to the interest of REAL bowlers, and that is where they go.

The houses that cater to the black light bowler, are slowly being left with just those. Better bowlers won't go to that house because of them.

There are only in a few houses that have REAL bowlers, and that's where the better scores are.


Edited by Dennis Michael (02/19/08 11:11 AM)
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#49998 - 02/19/08 11:16 AM Re: You think Pete likes Stone? [Re: Lefty]
sixbagger Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 135
A/S/L: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Lefty
So someone with a background in sports would think that a "jinx" was something more than a hokey superstition?


Of course they would, but when youre sitting on the bench and your pitcher is tossing a no-hitter you arent jaw-[censored] about it. As a viewer I would rather him keep his piehole shut until after the shot is made.

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