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#47204 - 01/08/08 05:54 AM What would you do? (cheating)
Silent Mike Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 998
A/S/L: 39/M/Poconos PA
Let's say there is a person on your league. They are a good bowler no question with a 225+ average(extra easy THS and typical THS delivery). No one really cares for said bowler because of their attitude. Said bowler makes comments about other people's score, achievements etc etc I have seen said bowler leave a 4-9 split, the machine comes down and clearly knocks a pin down. This person then does a score correction and continues to spare it up. Mind you this was 2-3 lanes away from me and not the pair I'm on but I watch intently because I have seen it once before.

Two things: wouldn't you as being a good bowler and leading the league in average be fair and record an honest score? If they do this and it inflates their average in my opinion they are cheating the league and themself. The people whom they're bowling against who allows it is cheating the league as well.

Do I or any other person have the right to intervene and make them play the game fairly by scoring it appropriately even though we are not on this person's pair? I know when we do finally get to bowl this person and if they're foolish enough to try something like that they will hear in no uncertain terms how I and other feel about the actions and they'll be forced to follow rules.

Just a pet peeve of mine. I have NEVER let a score correction go or cheated the game, my opponent or myself. I don't think anyone says much due to this person's attitude but I'm not going to be one of those people.


Edited by Silent Mike (01/08/08 05:58 AM)
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Posts: 10100
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#47207 - 01/08/08 08:11 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Silent Mike]
Tim Gerard Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2314
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
Why did'nt the the "said" bowlers opponent say something when they made the score adjustments? Or his teamates, for that matter. Are they that intiminated by this guy? That would not fly on our team, or in our league. I think it must be brought to the leagues attention, let it be known just what a fraud this guy is.

Here is a guy that acts all big and bad because he is one of the leagues better bowlers, when the fact is ...he is a cheater. He should have an * asterisk next to his name on the score sheet.
Guys like that just frost me.
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#47210 - 01/08/08 08:41 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Tim Gerard]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I have a similar question.. did anyone see the rack knock it down? If so then they should say something, but if no one saw it, you take what the result is.

And yes anyone, even on a different pair can say they saw it. I had one person get mad at me because I tried to get their attention when they were missing a 5 pin. They struck and I told them they had to shoot it over. The guy was [censored] for the rest of the night.

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#47217 - 01/08/08 09:31 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Lefty]
AmpleSound Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 1225
A/S/L: 34/M/CO
Heck I got burned, last season, on a strike because the 5 pin wasn't in there... Wish I would have known I could shoot it over!

I would say approach the league president, it would be better to handle it politically rather than personally for the leagues sake anyways.
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#47223 - 01/08/08 09:46 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: AmpleSound]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: AmpleSound
Heck I got burned, last season, on a strike because the 5 pin wasn't in there... Wish I would have known I could shoot it over!


It's not that you can shoot it over.. you have to shoot it over.

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#47225 - 01/08/08 09:52 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: AmpleSound]
Timotheus Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 446
A/S/L: 25/M/Syracuse, NY
If his average is that high then he's been bowling enough to know the rules about outside interference in knocking pins over (pinsetter, ball jumping out of the gutter, shooting a pin with a pellet gun (lol), etc.). But then again, the way you describe him, he's just a giant [censored] who probably thinks he can do whatever he wants because he's the highest average in the league.

In my Tuesday league there have been a couple of cases where a pinsetter knocked over a pin or a ball jumped out of the gutter, but its non-sanctioned and everyone knew what the rule about it was, so it was let go. If that happened in my sanctioned Wednesday league, you can bet I'd be letting the guy know that his score was false and that he was cheating.

P.S. No one actually shot a pin with a pellet gun, its just funny to think about.
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#47227 - 01/08/08 09:55 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Lefty]
AmpleSound Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 1225
A/S/L: 34/M/CO
Originally Posted By: Lefty
Originally Posted By: AmpleSound
Heck I got burned, last season, on a strike because the 5 pin wasn't in there... Wish I would have known I could shoot it over!


It's not that you can shoot it over.. you have to shoot it over.


Interesting, and go figure none of my team mates knew anything about this. Also the other team didn't care to step up and say anything... I was stringing strikes too, maybe that's why they kept hush hush LOL.


Edited by AmpleSound (01/08/08 09:55 AM)
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My best:
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#47231 - 01/08/08 10:12 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: AmpleSound]
Timotheus Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 446
A/S/L: 25/M/Syracuse, NY
Yeah rules say that anytime a ball is thrown with a pin missing the ball must be re-rolled, however I believe it is also illegal to not make it known to the bowler who's turn it is so that he can re-roll. If my memory is correct, its considered cheating to not tell someone they have to re-roll a ball due to a missing pin and then say later that that person rolled a ball with a missing pin and let the score count, especially once the scoresheet is signed.

There have been a few times where I've allowed someone to throw a spare ball after a pin had been knocked over by the setter without replacing the pin, however my stipulation was that I would let it stand if they would have gotten the pin on the spare anyway or I would adjust the score accordingly if it was obvious they would not have gotten the pin.

Actually last week there was a similar situation to this in that someone on the pair next to me left a 4-7 but had a slow messenger come over and knock out the 4 just before the setter came down. No one on their pair saw it so they called to have the 4 placed back on the lane and he would throw at the 2 pin leave instead just the 1 pin leave. When I told them that he had a messenger come over and knock the pin out they had a short discussion and all agreed he would keep the 8 pinfall as it was and go from there. No one cheated but they all talked it over and came to an agreement in a respectful manner.
_________________________
15.5lb MoRich Nsane LevRG (medium and medium-heavy)
15lb Roto-Grip Cell (heavy oil)
16lb Colombia White Dot (spares and extreme dry)
16lb Roto-Grip Neptune (light and dry)

High game: 300
High series: 779

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#47236 - 01/08/08 10:24 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Timotheus]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Timotheus

There have been a few times where I've allowed someone to throw a spare ball after a pin had been knocked over by the setter without replacing the pin, however my stipulation was that I would let it stand if they would have gotten the pin on the spare anyway or I would adjust the score accordingly if it was obvious they would not have gotten the pin.


This is a bad idea because it leave room for interpretation. Take the time to have the pin reset and do it right.

Quote:

Actually last week there was a similar situation to this in that someone on the pair next to me left a 4-7 but had a slow messenger come over and knock out the 4 just before the setter came down. No one on their pair saw it so they called to have the 4 placed back on the lane and he would throw at the 2 pin leave instead just the 1 pin leave. When I told them that he had a messenger come over and knock the pin out they had a short discussion and all agreed he would keep the 8 pinfall as it was and go from there. No one cheated but they all talked it over and came to an agreement in a respectful manner.


There's really nothing for them to talk over. They don't get to decide what pinfall to use. If no one sees it, you do NOT set the pin back up. You go with 9. If someone sees the machine hit it then you stand it back up. There's no vote about it.

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#47237 - 01/08/08 10:25 AM Re: What would you do? (cheating) [Re: Timotheus]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
As in a game of Poker, the hand plays itself. Even if the player reads his cards wrong, the table reads them correctly. Just like in bowling. If a rack knocks down the pin, anyone can attest to it, not just the bowler or the opponent.
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