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#45908 - 12/06/07 11:46 PM Older vs Younger Bowlers?
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Held off on posting this because I didn't know how to put it.

Last night, we had an incident at the lanes. And, the Officers threw out a bowler on one team. I have never seen anything like this happen before. But, I am glad we did it.

We expanded our league by 2 teams this year. We did have one team waiting to get in, and the House said they could get another team to enter. The House team has caused problems all year. And, we finally acted on one of them.

This team is all in their younger 20's. Our league age is 40-60 men. A few are outside of that range. This team thinks it's OK to be among more mature adults, yet still act as if they are in high school. They are rowdy, yell and scream, run up on the approach to slap hands, and are generally disrespectful of other bowlers. We have talked with them about lane courtesy, being loud and riotous while bowling. But, the more beer they drink, the more raucous they get.

We warned one of them who was bowling poorly, and when a teammate said something, he actually dropped his drawers and mooned his teammate. Of course, they thought is was funny. We talked with another who's habit was to throw a towel at another on the approach who missed a spare. We warned them about profanity being used. Their whole team has a demeanor that I personally wouldn't accept, and it seems that others are bothered by it too.

Last night, one of them wore a t-shirt that actually spelled out the four letter word beginning with F. It was noticed by many bowlers who took exception with it. The Pres and I talked and decided to ask him if he could change his shirt. He took exception with this and started to yell at the Pres. He was faced not only by me, but at least 6 more bowlers who told him to quit his ranting and change his shirt, or turn it inside out. Not having another shirt, he bowled with his jacket on for a game. In the second game, he started to loudly complain that people in the league were against him, he had a right to wear what he wanted, we were old [censored], and other words too. So, we confronted him again. His reaction was to take off his jacket, and shirt, and bowl barebacked. Finally, the House Asst Mgr came over and told him to put his shirt on or leave. A few words were said between them and the Asst called the police to have him escorted out of the lanes. The Officers met, and called the Captains together immediately. We voted to throw him out of the league and informed his team that he was not to return. Of course, they all complained, and threatened to quit. To our displeasure, they didn't.

We stayed around after bowling for a while and talked about the incident. Then the flashing lights came on. Loud music was playing and many people came in to bowl cosmic. Quite a few had the same shirt on. It seems that it is in reference to a local band that has the F word in their name.

There definitely is a generation gap. None of us could understand it. But, the House allowed the word on the shirt, he just couldn't bowl shirtless.

Bowling is supposed to be a family activity that parents should be able to bring their children and enjoy a time together. Being faced with raucous activity, profanity, and obscene print on t-shirts is not something I would bring my family to.
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#45909 - 12/06/07 11:59 PM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Brandon510 Offline

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1990
A/S/L: 28/Male/California/Philippines
WOW! Dennis i dont think i ever hear or seen that happen at my local center. Most bowlers i bowl league with are very respectful to the game and know the common rules.

We have a range of all different bowlers in my league from 20's to 70's. Most of the younger one show respect to other bowlers. Who do have one who drink but they arent that roudy they may use profanity once in a while but when asked to not they respectful do so.

But i have seen those people during cosmic and open play bowl. Run up and down the lanes and such. It is a shame a lot of league bowlers bring there childern a long and its suppose to be a family oriented place.
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#45914 - 12/07/07 01:31 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Brandon510]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
LOL, now that is pretty funny. I particularly liked the mooning part.

Now I would not have had a problem with the T shirt, but its not my call. If the proprietor doesn't want profanity on any shirts worn in the center then he's got a tough job ahead of him. If your league rules do not spell out "no profanity" on shirts and spells out a dress code, I'd think you are out of luck. There might be a public nuisence law out there, about this, but I see this kind of stuff on T shirts all the time.

Now I have said this before. If you bring your kids to a bowling alley at night when the bar is open, then you are opening yourself up to an environment that is not suitable to kids. Its like bringing your kids to a pool hall that just happens to have bowling. It is not place for kids!!! If the bar is open, then there's always going to be the chance that offensive behavior will happen either in the bar, on the concourse or on the lanes. Get your kids a sitter!!! If you do not want to take the chance that they will be confronted with these types of situations.

Times have changed. 30 years ago, people brought their kids and they sat and did homework or whatever. But parents are not like they were 30 years ago and kids are not like they were 30 years ago and the entire human population is not like it was 30 years ago. We are no longer living in the Lucy and Ricky time. You cannot expect a Brady Bunch environment any more, whenever adults and booze are available.

Lets face it......30 years ago, no 17 year old could get an AK47, get himself to a mall, and shoot up the place.

I dunno, I'm just not that sensitive. My skin is a lot thicker then that, and it's only had 45 years to grow. I see teams like that and I start rubbing my hands together in anticipation of the repartee I'm going to dish back when we start bowling. In fact I'll buy them another round.


#45916 - 12/07/07 01:46 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Atochabsh]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
You an after thought. The manager and proprietor have the veto vote. If they think the actions of this team on this particular night are out of hand, and out of control, then they have the right to throw them out of the center. If they do not do so, then the rest of the customers have to take that as an advisory that this behvior IS tolerated and therefore make a decision on whether to bowl there and/or bring their kids there.

What would you have done had this person not been in your league Just a customer of the bar? And he went up and down the concourse making loud comments on the bowling? Loudly supporting strikes or misses as he saw fit. The league would have absolutely no control of that individual. Any kids would have been at the mercy of the environment, which of course they always are as are we all.

Bowling is supposed to be a family activity that parents should be able to bring their children and enjoy a time together.

I disagree with this. If its an adult league, (not a Jr./Adult league) then its an adult environment....with booze. If you are bowling in an adult league and using it as time to spend with your kids (on the concourse of course), then you are sorely misled in parenting. That should not be parent:kid time, IMO. Are you there to bowl or there to bond with your kid? If you want that kind of environment, then join a Jr / Adult league. Then more then likely where will be rules pertaining to the bowlers (only the bowlers) using alcohol during league play.

OK, off the soap box now.....


#45919 - 12/07/07 07:39 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Atochabsh]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 897
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
There are two leagues that bowl tonight, and I bowl in the much better behaved of the two. My league has people who drink, but they don't start to get anywhere near the point that Dennis talked about. All of them keep their behavior in line for a bowling alley. Personally, I don't drink anything whether it is alcoholic or not when I am bowling. I also don't eat anything. Throws me out of my routine, plus I just refuse to spend that much on only 1 beer. People still swear in my league too (me included from time to time, something I have been working on myself). One of my teammates often wears a shirt that says "You Suck" and has a hand pointed towards whoever is standing in front of him. When he is struggling, we jokingly tell him to turn it inside out so it points at himself.

The other one is full of people who do bowl pretty good, but do also drink a lot. Anytime one of them misses, everyone nearby yells out "@$$hole". One night 2 bowlers on the same team in that league almost got into a physical fight after a rather profanity laden verbal argument. This is more the younger bowlers in that league than the older ones.

I have to agree with Erin, adult leagues are no place for young kids unless it is an adult-junior league. Honestly, some of these kids should not even be up as late as they are at their age. And they aren't doing homework either (no surprise to this HS teacher), they are running around the concourse. There have been a few times that they have gotten hurt from running around back there. Not a place for young kids, just like young kids should not be brought with parents during R rated movies.

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#45922 - 12/07/07 09:00 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Mkirchie]
Tim Gerard Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2314
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
In my league the age group is around 30-70 years of age. There is drinking, smoking and swearing and guys playing cards with pornagraphic material on them...basically guys being guys. Our team happens to be more reserved ( we use conventional we have a few beers and enjoy ourselves. No one really gets out of hand,..with the exception of an occasional kick of the ball return after someone throws an errant shot. Those guys are warned and thats usually the end of it.
Its not a family environment.

Weekend afternoons are more of a family time, I usually don't bowl then because of all the kids running around and other distractions. Besides the lanes are usually fried.
As far as the shirt goes, it would not have bothered me, but the antics of the rowdy team would have and the proprioter has every right to boot them out. If they offend other league members with thier behavior they need to be dealt with. Managment does not want to loose good paying leagues to other centers because of clownish behavior of a few.

We did threaten to kick a guy out once for wearing a Detroit Lions shirt though....LOL.
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#45924 - 12/07/07 09:36 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Mkirchie]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
A couple of weeks ago, the Wed before Thanksgiving, the Center was raided by the local police. It seems common practice for one person who is of age to purchase a pitcher of beer at the bar and bring it back to the table for underaged drinkers. Being the night before a holiday, there were many kids in from college and probably high schoolers participating. The Cops blocked the front door and the 2 side doors, then proceeded to check the ID's of every younger person there. It was also noticed that the Police had spotters sitting in the back, taking notes of who was drinking. They pointed out the suspects to the uniforms. Quite a few kids were removed.

We actually have a log of league rules that have been passed over the years, maintained by the Secy. We have a rule that states that "since this is a family establishment, profanity will be curtailed", And another that recommended that obscenities face the pins, and not the crowd in back. Don't really know how to rule on these, but the violator was banned from our league for disrespect to Officers and other bowlers. And, it is common for many bowlers to bring their children to watch Dad bowl.

Now, this is a "Big B" House, and the only one that caters to this type of activity. Another B Center is being built about 10 miles West of here, and they have already put out notices that there will be NO leagues over the weekends, and Cosmic bowling will be the venue. The B Center 8 miles East where I live doesn't have this at all. They cater to the neighborhood. The rest are privately owned, and wouldn't think of allowing this kind of activity.

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#45926 - 12/07/07 09:52 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Tim Gerard]
Odyssey912 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 213
A/S/L: 32/F/Pittsburgh,PA
My league on Thursday is all women ranging from 30 - 80. Actually I think I am the youngest on the league.

No one gets out of hand but there a couple of us that have a good time. We are not bothersome or running onto the lanes or screaming out while others are on the approach - but we are happy and high five everyone (even our opponents) and I have a few beers. BUT there are some women on the league who think that we should all be sitting in our seats with our hands in our laps quietly awaiting our turn. That just cracks me up.

I admit that sometimes my mouth is a little less to be desired - but the entire league can not hear me and usually it is done under my breathe anyway.

NOW - the mens league that bowls next to us, they have some pretty rowdy bowlers but they are far enough away that they don't bother any of us. My uncle bowls down there and I visit when I am done bowling - the one team is the craziest of them all but noone is really bothered by it - guess they all just got used to it and I think now that most of it is just for show because they have this reputation of being the rowdy ones.

Thursday league night where I am is definitely no place for kids - especially on the men's side.

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#45927 - 12/07/07 09:56 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Tim Gerard]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
I, like many of the others would find offense with some of their antics. The shirt I wouldn't care about. I'm not oversensitive. The fact that he went off after the Pres. asked him to change or flip the shirt inside-out I would have an issue with that. I would have no problem with voting the person or team out of the league for conduct detrimental to the league. The league is responsible for the actions of its league members during league time.

I agree with Erin, Mkirchie and Eraser about kids not being at the bowling alley during an adult league. The parents rarely keep them under control and if they do they keep them in a seat that then keeps one of the league members from having someplace to sit. Some centers are already crowded with just the bowlers. I also am not a big fan of bringing adults along that don't really need to be there. A spouse maybe, but I've seen people bring along several friends.
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#45928 - 12/07/07 09:58 AM Re: Older vs Younger Bowlers? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Timotheus Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 446
A/S/L: 25/M/Syracuse, NY
I bowl in league on Wednesdays where I am actually the youngest bowler in the league at 24, and everyone else ranges from late-20s/early-30s up to their 60's and even 70's or 80's and is made up mostly of engineers/engineering related career people and retirees (the league originally started for bowlers at the local Lockheed Martin facility). We don't have anyone that really gets too roudy or disrespectful, though there are a couple teams that are pretty boisterous if they're doing well. Generally though as Eraser said in his post its just guys being guys and having fun with each other.

My Tuesday league which I use as mostly a practice league is unsanctioned and features a wide range of people, but again there's not really any loud profanity and everyone is pretty respectful. Though there was another league on the same night that came in and bowled on the next set of lanes from us that seemed to be made up of a lot of either older high school kids or college kids, and they pretty much all acted like the stereotypical frat boy; loud, obnoxious, profanity-laden, excessive celebration/frustration, lots of alcohol, etc. It didn't bother me too much since I usually wasn't close enough to them, and that league has since ended, but it was a bit annoying.

As for the kids, the parents in my Wednesday league bring their kids sometimes, but they usually are just watching, doing homework or talking with their mom or siblings if they're there too. I don't have kids myself (hell I don't even have a girlfriend) but I wouldn't mind bringing mine to that league if they wanted to come watch me bowl. I wouldn't let them anywhere near some of the other leagues I've bowled in though.
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