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#45849 - 12/06/07 03:40 AM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: B.C.]
B.C. Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 185
A/S/L: 50/M/Northern California
Originally Posted By: brettbolt
I think I'm taking the Radical Inferno into the shop tomorrow for a conventional re-drill.

Looks like I won't be doing that after all. I took a close look at the ball and it has a new 6 inch long crack! Must have happened in practice Monday night.

Now I have to choose a new ball as this R.I. is now R.I.P.

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#45861 - 12/06/07 09:48 AM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: B.C.]
infernocal Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1874
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
Brett, I was reading this yesterday and remembered I once had a semi-fingertip span ball. It was a longer span than a conventional but not as long as a full fingertip span. It was my first non plastic ball, a urethane and it was the first one that I hooked. It didn't get much of a hook, 5-7 boards but if I was consistent it worked great. It was only my first year of bowling after a year and half absence, which techniquely was my second year. I'm not sure how much it would help but its a thought. Maybe someone else on here can shine more light on this drilling, whether it would be something to consider. As for the Radical Inferno, I have one and I like it, right now I can use it at either house I bowl in using radically different lines in each.

And after posting this I see your Radical is dead. I've seen people bowl with cracked bowling balls, don't recommend it though.
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#45864 - 12/06/07 10:17 AM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: B.C.]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3171
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: Smooth Stroker
I would stick with a 13 or 14 pound ball for now. Maybe 14 and a wrist brace. I would like to know exactly what causes the pain you spoke of. Is it having the ball roll off of your fingers? or is it turning your hand so the ball rotates at an angle?

Originally Posted By: brettbolt
The pain is in the first finger joints of my ring and middle finger. They get bent backwards when I use a fingertip grip. Its not from turning my wrist, because it hurts just as much if I throw it with no wrist rotation at all . The heavier the ball, the more pain. Maybe I'm doing something wrong to cause this -- like trying to get too many revs? It has a much higher hook potential than my AMF Orbit, and should help me avoid leaving 5's (like I did several times in league last night).


Brett, the more you explain your dilemma, the more I am coming to the conclusion that you are not rolling your ball off your fingers as Smooth suggests, but rather have your hand more on top of the ball at release. Erin calls that "above the equator". You either have your wrist slacked back during the backswing or the span is straining your fingers. Either will cause your ball to slide and not roll. And, deflection will occur on impact, leaving 5 pins.

If your hand is back and you are trying to use your fingers, that in itself is causing finger strain.

Now, that you have to start with a new ball, try the drop in weight to 14# as Smooth suggests with a high hook potential ball, conventional grip, and use a wrist support. The positive thing I find with the wrist support is that is a good training tool. If you feel the support pressure the back of your hand through the swing, it tells you that your wrist is slackened and bent back. Through practice, you can feel the pressure lessen which tells you that your wrist is straighter.

I use the wrist support to retrain my wrist and hand when I notice that I released the ball wrong. And, it only takes a couple of rolls to retrain it. Then, I take it off.


_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#45878 - 12/06/07 12:54 PM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: Dennis Michael]
B.C. Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 185
A/S/L: 50/M/Northern California
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael

Brett, the more you explain your dilemma, the more I am coming to the conclusion that you are not rolling your ball off your fingers as Smooth suggests, but rather have your hand more on top of the ball at release. Erin calls that "above the equator". You either have your wrist slacked back during the backswing or the span is straining your fingers. Either will cause your ball to slide and not roll.

Dennis, you're right. Yes, my wrist is slacked back and that is the first thing I was told that I need to correct in my lesson several weeks ago. The coach told me I had a slight amount of a 'backup ball' and needed to straighten my wrist more. This probably explains why I often leave the 5 pin when I hit the 1-2 pocket.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael

Now, that you have to start with a new ball, try the drop in weight to 14# as Smooth suggests with a high hook potential ball, conventional grip, and use a wrist support.

Will do, and I thank everyone here for the advice. Now I'm wondering which ball/brand to get and how to have it drilled (early hook or going long). So many choices.

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#45879 - 12/06/07 01:05 PM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: B.C.]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3171
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Brett said: Will do, and I thank you guys for the advice. Now I'm wondering which ball/brand to get and how to have it drilled (early hook or going long). So many choices. But I guarantee you that I won't be buying another ball from eBay.


EARLY HOOK. Your ball doesn't need the length, you need the finish. Best bet, a sanded ball at 600 to 400 grit finish. Nothing over 1000. Remember, you are playing inside the taper of the center where the oil is rather than an outside line where it is dryer. Get friction in the oil. But, remember they absorb oil and require maintenance.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#45994 - 12/07/07 10:21 PM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: Dennis Michael]
Smooth Stroker Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1199
A/S/L: 40/M/NYC
The lighter ball will be easier on your fingers. 14 will do. The wrist brace will keep your wrist straight. If you keep your hand behind the ball at an angle, you will create the axis rotation needed to make the ball hook. I would go with a matte finish symmetrical core reactive ball.

As a person with an injury, don't feel bad about using a wrist brace. Try to keep your fingers behind the ball, at an angle. Let the ball roll off of your finger tips ( if that's possible ). The thumb doesn't create rotation, It provides grip. the fingers provide roll and revs, the hand position provides axis rotation. Plenty of revs can be created without any finger flipping at all. Ask Pete Weber. He gets plenty of revs without putting any fingers into his release. It's all in the rotation of the wrist and timing.
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#46003 - 12/08/07 04:34 AM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: Smooth Stroker]
B.C. Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 185
A/S/L: 50/M/Northern California
Hey Smooth, you just made your 1000th post!. And thanks for the good advice. I appreciate the fact that you're taking the time to help a newbie like me with a messed up hand.

Having been in a league for 10 months (almost the entire time since I started bowling), I've been afraid to make major changes in delivery that might hurt both my hand and score in the short term, along with my team's standing.

Fall League is officially over now and I'm considering the possibility of taking a break and not doing league in the Winter/Spring season. That way I can get my badly needed hand surgery, recover from it, and then learn to throw a hook. I won't have the pressure to perform every week and I can take the time to learn to do it properly.

As for my next ball, I'm considering getting a Brunswick Twisted Fury drilled to hook early.

Another possibility I could try is a thumbless delivery style. As it is now, my thumb is so messed up that it doesn't do much to support the weight of ball. So I'm thinking about leaving it outside the holes throughout the swing (with a cupped wrist). I've seen other league bowlers use this delivery and get a huge hook.

In summary, I guess you could say that I am facing a lot of choices right now with my bowling game.

Brett

P.S. -- Assuming that the Admin approves it, I'm changing my username from 'brettbolt' to 'Cracked Inferno'.

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#46009 - 12/08/07 08:48 AM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: B.C.]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3171
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Good luck with the possible surgery. Hope all goes well. Maybe you can insert some bionics in your hand that always cause your hand to have the exact rotation needed for a smooth hook to the pocket? I know it can be done. Seen it in many movies. That would be awesome. Better than a gyroscope ball.

I know Smooth approached this question, and I will repeat it. Did you ever consider bowling with the other hand?

If you don't bowl in Winter, don't stop coming around. If you can only type with one hand, I'll try to piece in the letters from the right side of the keyboard. Who needs periods?
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#46011 - 12/08/07 04:29 PM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: Dennis Michael]
infernocal Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1874
A/S/L: 27/m/maryland
As a transformed thumbless bowler, I don't suggest doing it. It is very hard to be accurate with it at all times, and can be harder to make spares. It takes a lot of practice and work to get it down. Then there are issues with drier lanes. One also does not have the ability to change hand or finger positions to try to get a little different reaction out of it. That big hook is a nice thing to watch, but can be kill your score with the amount of splits that you can leave. It also puts more wear and tear on the wrist and elbow. I had several bowlers back when I started bowling with two fingers tell me about how much better my average would be if I learned to bowl with my thumb. One of the bowlers used to bowl thumbless, and said is average went up after he learned to use the thumb, and became more consistent. I changed over almost two years ago and have been doing much better, averaging 20 pins higher, and can hook the ball as much now as I could then. I am now one of those who try to talk a thumbless bowler into learning a more conventional way to bowl. Also if you do go thumbless you have to make sure the thumb hole is covered at all times during the swing by some part of your hand.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

2008-2009 Winter Season
HG:277
HS:673

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#46015 - 12/08/07 07:50 PM Re: Best carry for a straight-ball thrower [Re: infernocal]
B.C. Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 185
A/S/L: 50/M/Northern California
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael

I know Smooth approached this question, and I will repeat it. Did you ever consider bowling with the other hand?

If you don't bowl in Winter, don't stop coming around. If you can only type with one hand, I'll try to piece in the letters from the right side of the keyboard. Who needs periods?


I was still in High School after the accident in 1975, and I had to learn to write left handed. (Which I can still do). So I am sure I could eventually learn to bowl with it.

I can easily hold my left wrist straight with a 15 or 16 pound ball, so a brace wouldn't be necessary. But, as with most rightys, my left arm is not as well coordinated, so it will take lots of practice to switch.

I'll still come here often this spring, even if I sit out the league season. And you'll know when my right hand is all bandaged up because all my typing will be in lower case. I plan on abandoning all use of the shift key (which takes 2 hands).

Originally Posted By: infernocal
As a transformed thumbless bowler, I don't suggest doing it. It is very hard to be accurate with it at all times, and can be harder to make spares. It takes a lot of practice and work to get it down.


Thanks Cal, I'll take your advice and not attempt it. I tried some thumbless deliveries last night (into the couch cushion) and it seemed like it could easily put too much strain on my fingers.

Thursday I am seeing my hand surgeon to discuss my options. After that, its big decision time.

Dennis, is a bionic hand legal to use in USBC leagues and tournaments?

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