Any suggestions on how to control a twisting forearm? When I go into my back swing my forearm seems to twist around. I also have a tendency to swing the ball behind my back rather than out to the side but I am not sure what to do because if I concentrate too much on my arm swing I miss my mark.

Which way does it twist? As long as it doesn't keep your fingers from being on the inside of/behind the ball on the way down, it's probably not a problem.

Re: arm behind back, which part of the swing? On the way up? down? both? Always, or only when you're playing inside? Up the boards?

My forearm twists outward when the ball is behind my back but then straightens out during my delivery.

My arm swings behind my back on the way up and then striaghtens out to my side on the way down. I know I should get a video but do not have one so hopefully describing it is good enough.

So you mean the inside of your arm faces out? That's probably actually helping you stay inside the ball longer, giving you a more powerful release.

As far as the swing path, it sounds more conducive to playing straight, as opposed to bellying the ball. Do you have trouble getting the ball outside when you need to move in?

Basically, if you can do it consistently, it's really probably not a problem. If it's actually affecting your game, then it needs to be fixed. 2 probable causes are either:
- You're muscling the ball. Fix: free armswing!
- Your pushaway is going too far to the right. Fix: pushaway straight at your target (keep in mind that your ball is not where your eyes are, so to pushaway to your target, it will look to your eyes like you are pushing a little bit to the right of the target. Just for fun in practice one day, you can try leaning your head a bit in your starting position so it's over the ball, just to see the difference in perspective.)

Another "just for fun" that you can do one day is to throw some shots one day with your normal delivery. Really watch the ball path - where it hits the arrows, and what angle it travels down the lane. Then try a couple with your ball 2 inches left in the starting position. Then try a couple with the ball 2 inches right of your normal starting position. Watch how the path changes.

This sounds like a common condition that a lot of bowlers have to deal with at some time in their bowling career.

The easiest way that I have learned to overcome the twist is to make sure that I "shake hands with the lanes" and I use a "mark and reach" technique to make sure that my arm stays straight. Let me explain.

"Shaking hands with the lanes"
This is just as it sounds. You should try to finish your shot with your arm in the same position that it would be if you were shaking hands with someone. You can keep your eyes on your mark to be sure that you are rolling the ball over the mark and your hand should follow through as if you were shaking hands.

"Mark and Reach"
I use this technique to be sure that I don't twist my arm. I focus on my mark (the "Mark" part) and reach for the ceiling with my thumb (the "Reach" part). This allows me to be more consistent in hitting my mark with the best follow through that I can get.

When my form goes to $@#, I use these two techniques to get back on Track.

Hope this helps...

The biggest problem I have when playing in is actually the opposite. I tend to get the ball too far outside and then it doesn't come back (unless the lanes are really dry). I tend to like to play the outside line because I do throw a straight ball.

I will try those suggestions in practice. I am not sure if it really affects my bowling but people do comment on it. I have had more people ask me if my arm hurts to bowl the way I do and I tell them no, my arm is not even sore the next day. Another comment I got last week was that the way I bowl it shouldn't work but it does (whatever that means, I should have asked). I do hold the ball out to the right of my body when I am set because I thought that would help me keep my arm from going behind my back but from what you said it looks like the opposite could be true.

Well, with a free armswing, your arm is the pivot point. If you start out away from and in front of your body, and drop the ball, it will move to a point directly under the pivot, which has it moving towards the back of your body, and in towards your body, and then it will continue on that path, which will have it end up behind your back. if you start it in front of your body, the opposite will happen - it will move towards your shoulder, which is to the outside, and continue on that path.

I have been personally plagued with a suitcase type arm swing or the handshake arm swing for longer than I care to mention. Even with coaching I felt like I was staying behind the ball, only to videotape it later and see my hand back on the side of the ball again as the ball headed into another dead on arrival release.

I can not recommend anything more than getting a video camera and record your swing from behind and try different feels and angles to change your swing to how you want it. A coach is helpful with techniques to alter your swing, but seeing is believing because what it feels like you are doing is not necessarily what you actually are doing.

Jim,

Try pointing your thumb at the right wall the entire shot so when you do close, it will be late rather than early. See if that helps, and of course the old Jowdy trick of leading with the ring finger.

Pushaway determines swing direction and how loose the armswing is. If your arm is coming behind your back, that tells me you are pushing the ball too far right during the pushaway. Disengage your arm muscles and let the ball swing your arm. Basically, you want your bowling elbow to slightly brush your bowling side hip as you do your pushaway, and keep the ball under your shoulder the whole swing so it comes very close to your bowling side hip on the forward swing. You actually want to try and hit your sliding leg with the ball just prior to the release. You want to stay behind the ball as long as you can, and then after the thumb clears, rotate the fingers to produce an effective hook.

Thanks for the tip, when I lead with the ring finger, I am in great shape at the top of the back swing, but then my shoulder still twists to about 45 degrees before I release it. I can do a one step delivery and my arm stays behind the ball, but a full approach makes it flip for some reason. I just need to practice more than I have time for and video tape myself.

I do know that keying on different finger positions throughout the swing alters it, just not to where it needs to be.

I used to do the point the thumb at the right wall back in the day like Tommy Hudson, but it made me throw a spinner, it is worth a try though. I will let you know if it works.

This is what you should be expierencing if you pull the ball behind your body. If the ball is behind your back when it comes forward, the only place for it to go is right.

Without seeing the video I'd hazard to guess that it's either one of two things.

1) You are holding the ball to far out to the right and that is causing the ball to swing back behind your back.

2) You are muscling the ball (i.e. not letting your arm swing free) and you are physically pulling the ball behind your back.

I would guess that it's probably #2 since you also seem to have a problem with twisting your arm. That's also going to be you physically doing it and not keeping your arm relaxed. But again, that's just a guess without seeing a video.

One question One comment.

1. When you pull your arm behind your back, are you keeping your shoulders square? Or are you pulling your ball shoulder back, "opening up"? If so, you are pulling the ball back, rather than letting it drop.

2. When your arm goes behing your back, your wrist usually turns around you, and your fingers are on the side of the ball. This tenses your wrist and could result in bringing your arm around your body with your wrist bent, and results in an arm pull in front and across your body. Remedy, open your hand on presentation, thumb pointing right and ball resting on index finger. Keep this position through your armswing. And swing from the shoulder.

I cannot thank you all enough. Because of all the advice on this thread I let my armswing be more natural and kept the ball in front of me and aimed at the target and ended up with my best series in over a year. Also it seemed as though my arm never did tire out during the course of the 3 games. That arm problem could have very well been what was preventing me from breaking the plateau I had been in.

I believe that you mentioned before that your arm gets tired. When that comment was made (I think it was you), I immedidately thought about a controlled / muscled arm swing.

Keep working at it and I bet you can free it up even more than you already have. It's usually a big change for people, but there really should be very little if any use of your arm and shoulder muscles to swing the bowling ball.

What laterals are you using in your thumb? If you want to experiment with an old ball, if you aren't using left pitch, you could try some left pitch in your thumb, say 1/16th to 1/8th. That may keep you behind the ball a little more.

Lefty,

I did a little experiment where I practiced my swing and watched what my arm was doing. i discovered I was forcing my arm higher because it felt like it was not going up enough on the backswing. I realized that just by letting the natural motion take effect your arm naturally swings high enough behind your back. My ball was actually more powerful with a natural backswing.

I have had issues with muscling the ball and I need to remember if I just keep to a smooth fluid delivery and hit my mark my ball will will pack more power. It is a mental thing thinking a higher backswing and more juice on the ball makes it more powerful because at least in my case it does not.

I use 0 lateral pitch which is still left of where the chart says my thumb should be, I have used 1/8 left before, but it rubs the tip of my thumb nail so we backed it down to 0. My thumb points to my ring finger on the bottle test, so 0 is still about 1/4 left of where the chart says it should be.

My problem is a shoulder problem not a hand problem, my hand is in the middle of the ball, it is my shoulder that is at the wrong angle. If that makes any sence. My PAP is 5 3/4" x 1/2 up. If I ever am able to get to the release zone with my shoulder/elbow pointing to my target, it will be pretty straight and heavy rolling I will then have to learn to release the ball.

What has been working is doing a practice swing before each shot and leading with my pinkie, this has gotten my shoulder from putting my hand at 90 degrees to 45 degrees at the release.

To see what I am talking about, let your arm just hang at your side and you will see that your hand hangs naturally with your hand in a 90 degree position; however, in bowling we want to release the ball with our hand/elbow facing the target and only the hand rotating to 90 degrees or 45 degrees or what ever rotation angle we need to play the lanes properly. It is hard to release the ball properly if your elbow is rotated to 90 degrees before you get there. I am going to practice today and see if thinking about my elbow position helps, or if I am even able to control my elbow position through the release.

Keep in mind I am averaging around 210 and have been around there for the past 10 years or so, but I am never going get to the next level without making this change. I figure by the time I am 110 years old I will be ready for the tour.

I didn't mean to hyjack your post Scott, I am just trying to show you some of the things I have been working on with my own game that might also help you. Swing alterations are the hardest to make because they are the hardest to feel when you do them wrong.

You hit the nail on the head. That is why most people throw their spare shots better than their strike shots, because they are not trying to hook the ball and just let it swing.

Bill Taylor described it in one of his books that the arm swing is like a crane with a wrecking ball and the wrecking ball is at it's most powerful when it is allowed to just swing from the crane, but when the crane leads the ball more, it does less dammage.

You're exactly right! I think a lot of people have a hard time with this concept because it's not intuitive. We usually equate power with muscle and that's just not the case here.



I still struggle with this. One of the things that has helped me struggle with it less is to remember that a controlled/muscled arm swing isn't just about adding more power... it's also about slowing the swing down. Make sure you don't equate "fluid" with "slow" because then you may just control your swing to make it swing slower. Think completely relaxed shoulder and arm muscles and letting the ball swing all by itself.

Wow, after reading your post, Scott, I realized that I was probably doing the same thing. I thought my backswing was not going high enough and was forcing it higher 'on purpose'. Tonight in practice I just let it go as high as it wanted to. I got my lifetime high score the first game where I stopped forcing the backswing higher!! I just pointed the ball at the mark, let it do its thing during the swing, and watched it go exactly where I wanted it. It seemed easy. Thanks!

Glad to hear that the lightbulb went off

Glad to hear that Brett. Way to go.

One value of reading this board is finding a conversation of another that relates to you. I have noticed that a few times for myself. This is great , first to know that I am not the only one with some problems, and second that there ore some really good recommendations here.

Strange, I posted the above at 2:26 am. It is now 3:56 am. The recent post column on the right says I posted the above 1 second ago. Someone's clock is off.

The timestamps are correct for me.

I have my preferences to always have the post time show, not the relative time, but I still get relative times (or sometimes no times at all) for never posts. Sometimes a new post will show up in the main view that is not in the right-hand column yet as well.

Great to hear! looks good to me.