Thanks for the tip, when I lead with the ring finger, I am in great shape at the top of the back swing, but then my shoulder still twists to about 45 degrees before I release it. I can do a one step delivery and my arm stays behind the ball, but a full approach makes it flip for some reason. I just need to practice more than I have time for and video tape myself.

I do know that keying on different finger positions throughout the swing alters it, just not to where it needs to be.

I used to do the point the thumb at the right wall back in the day like Tommy Hudson, but it made me throw a spinner, it is worth a try though. I will let you know if it works.

This is what you should be expierencing if you pull the ball behind your body. If the ball is behind your back when it comes forward, the only place for it to go is right.

Without seeing the video I'd hazard to guess that it's either one of two things.

1) You are holding the ball to far out to the right and that is causing the ball to swing back behind your back.

2) You are muscling the ball (i.e. not letting your arm swing free) and you are physically pulling the ball behind your back.

I would guess that it's probably #2 since you also seem to have a problem with twisting your arm. That's also going to be you physically doing it and not keeping your arm relaxed. But again, that's just a guess without seeing a video.

One question One comment.

1. When you pull your arm behind your back, are you keeping your shoulders square? Or are you pulling your ball shoulder back, "opening up"? If so, you are pulling the ball back, rather than letting it drop.

2. When your arm goes behing your back, your wrist usually turns around you, and your fingers are on the side of the ball. This tenses your wrist and could result in bringing your arm around your body with your wrist bent, and results in an arm pull in front and across your body. Remedy, open your hand on presentation, thumb pointing right and ball resting on index finger. Keep this position through your armswing. And swing from the shoulder.

I cannot thank you all enough. Because of all the advice on this thread I let my armswing be more natural and kept the ball in front of me and aimed at the target and ended up with my best series in over a year. Also it seemed as though my arm never did tire out during the course of the 3 games. That arm problem could have very well been what was preventing me from breaking the plateau I had been in.

I believe that you mentioned before that your arm gets tired. When that comment was made (I think it was you), I immedidately thought about a controlled / muscled arm swing.

Keep working at it and I bet you can free it up even more than you already have. It's usually a big change for people, but there really should be very little if any use of your arm and shoulder muscles to swing the bowling ball.

What laterals are you using in your thumb? If you want to experiment with an old ball, if you aren't using left pitch, you could try some left pitch in your thumb, say 1/16th to 1/8th. That may keep you behind the ball a little more.

Lefty,

I did a little experiment where I practiced my swing and watched what my arm was doing. i discovered I was forcing my arm higher because it felt like it was not going up enough on the backswing. I realized that just by letting the natural motion take effect your arm naturally swings high enough behind your back. My ball was actually more powerful with a natural backswing.

I have had issues with muscling the ball and I need to remember if I just keep to a smooth fluid delivery and hit my mark my ball will will pack more power. It is a mental thing thinking a higher backswing and more juice on the ball makes it more powerful because at least in my case it does not.

I use 0 lateral pitch which is still left of where the chart says my thumb should be, I have used 1/8 left before, but it rubs the tip of my thumb nail so we backed it down to 0. My thumb points to my ring finger on the bottle test, so 0 is still about 1/4 left of where the chart says it should be.

My problem is a shoulder problem not a hand problem, my hand is in the middle of the ball, it is my shoulder that is at the wrong angle. If that makes any sence. My PAP is 5 3/4" x 1/2 up. If I ever am able to get to the release zone with my shoulder/elbow pointing to my target, it will be pretty straight and heavy rolling I will then have to learn to release the ball.

What has been working is doing a practice swing before each shot and leading with my pinkie, this has gotten my shoulder from putting my hand at 90 degrees to 45 degrees at the release.

To see what I am talking about, let your arm just hang at your side and you will see that your hand hangs naturally with your hand in a 90 degree position; however, in bowling we want to release the ball with our hand/elbow facing the target and only the hand rotating to 90 degrees or 45 degrees or what ever rotation angle we need to play the lanes properly. It is hard to release the ball properly if your elbow is rotated to 90 degrees before you get there. I am going to practice today and see if thinking about my elbow position helps, or if I am even able to control my elbow position through the release.

Keep in mind I am averaging around 210 and have been around there for the past 10 years or so, but I am never going get to the next level without making this change. I figure by the time I am 110 years old I will be ready for the tour.

I didn't mean to hyjack your post Scott, I am just trying to show you some of the things I have been working on with my own game that might also help you. Swing alterations are the hardest to make because they are the hardest to feel when you do them wrong.

You hit the nail on the head. That is why most people throw their spare shots better than their strike shots, because they are not trying to hook the ball and just let it swing.

Bill Taylor described it in one of his books that the arm swing is like a crane with a wrecking ball and the wrecking ball is at it's most powerful when it is allowed to just swing from the crane, but when the crane leads the ball more, it does less dammage.

You're exactly right! I think a lot of people have a hard time with this concept because it's not intuitive. We usually equate power with muscle and that's just not the case here.



I still struggle with this. One of the things that has helped me struggle with it less is to remember that a controlled/muscled arm swing isn't just about adding more power... it's also about slowing the swing down. Make sure you don't equate "fluid" with "slow" because then you may just control your swing to make it swing slower. Think completely relaxed shoulder and arm muscles and letting the ball swing all by itself.