Not sure if anyone else has had similar problems, but it's getting to be very challenging! I bowl at an AMF for my Saturday night league, and everyone on the league seems to be having the same complaint; the oil breaks down shortly after practice. The alley has told us that the machine is working correctly, though I'm beginning to wonder what kind of oil they're using.

With my goals towards bowling, I am doing my best to correct the lane issues and not let them throw off my mental game. So far it has been a lot better over the last couple of weeks. Though there is lots of frustration from both teams on every lane.

So I guess my question is, how do you guys adjust to lane breakdown? I typically start around the 20 board and my target arrow is 12-10 board. This last weekend I moved to the 25 board and targeted the 16-15 board. I had a bit more success, though I wasn't able to keep my consistency up in the last game. Would you guys resort to throwing your spare ball if there just doesn't seem to be oil out there? Also I'm starting to think that they're behind on pen replacement as well. I've seen TONS of pocket 7-10 splits. I even had one myself two weeks ago...

It doesn't sound to me like 5 boards to move is that unusual. But you have to learn how to anticipate it. If it keeps happening every week, note when it does. Then next week you can anticipate the break down and move ahead of it.

The 7, 10s can be because the ball is not generating enough entry angle or is rolling out due to too much coverstock.

When the lanes break down and you start seeing the 7, 10s, have you tried a weaker ball and moving back right?

But when I start seeing the 4 pin stand or go down late I start anticipating moving. Then I watch my teammates to see if they too are starting to go high.

Erin

The 7-10 split happened for me at my very last shot of the night in the 10th. It did roll a bit, but seemed very square in the pocket. Obviously it must not have been, being I saw both the 4 and the 6 pens kick out to the gutter instead of slide back. I haven't tried the adjustment though, I'm guessing I could take some revs off the ball and try to let it roll instead. (Is that what you mean?)

My Saturn is my only change-up for medium/light oil. I don't really have anything for dry conditions. I'm just happy to be bowling on 29-30 this week, those are usually my better lanes at this house.

My best line seems to be start at the 17 board, putting by ball out to the 7 board, and have the reaction occur out near the 1 board. Though it gets mighty scary trying to do that consistently!

i bowl at nightingale lanes (flint,mi.)on thurdays and if i only move 5 boards in 3 games i would be heaven. its common to move at lease 10 boards.

NO, what I mean is rolling out as in lost so much energy going down the lane (making to travel too far or hook too much) for the coverstock the ball has. Or your ball speed is too slow for the same situation. The ball burns up energy and doesn't have enough at the end to impact the pins.

Erin

These lanes I am bowling in must be in an economic crunch because they are saving oil and not using it on the lanes. I have been told that they don't strip the lanes first either. The lanes are just horrible by the third game.

I start standing on 16 board and hitting the 8 board. At the end tonight, I was 2 dots left of center and rolling our to 5. I also changed balls to a less aggressive one, and reduced my revs, and came straight out of the ball. Nothing was working for me, or for that matter, anyone else on our pair.

It happens that way sometimes. It's a pain.

Ahh I see what you mean, and I must say that it certainly didn't flop in the pocket (it hit with a nice flush pin smashing explosion). I've definitely had a few flop on me, usually because I didn't stay behind the ball. My coach has been trying to get me to make more subtle adjustments instead of moving board after board, just to find a decent line. He has taught me a lot of hand positions to do before I start moving boards. Some help make the ball to go longer, some help to build revs and more hook. Some just flatten it out completely, etc... And he definitely likes me playing a further inside line, since that is usually where you'll find oil. Though he does plan to teach me different target zones, and how to play the different areas of the lane.

Personally I think it is irresponsible of a coach to teach someone at your level a variety of hand positions. Simply due to the fact that you don't have one down pat in your muscle memory yet. How can you correctly and consistently change what you don't have yet established?

Learning how to get lined up better and faster is not really up to changing hand positions, IMO. It is difficult to learn and if you don't know how to do it yourself, even harder to teach. Because I know the Bronze level course did not ever touch on lane play at all or spare shooting for that matter. Staying lined up is another issue. Learning when and how to watch your ball at the pins so that you can judge what ball might be best in that condition is also tough to learn. I would not expect someone at your level to know these things yet.

Erin

I would agree with Erin. It's not a good idea to keep changing releases when you're at where you are. Even at around a 200 average, it would still be difficult to manage. Heck, even at 220 or higher, it's not something that people do easily.

I'd say stick to one release.

I tired that before About year ago or so when i first came back after a 10 year lay off. Trying to learn multiply release. Boy did it mess my game up - i struggled. I did it because i was trying to shoot both my strike and spare ball with the same ball. But i learned i wasnt consistant and needed to learn one release and stregth that and work on being consitant with that.

My coach is a silver level coach, and I think he's teaching me more because of how fast I've picked things up. Trust me none of what he's taught me has hurt my game. It has drastically improved it! He hasn't taught me too many hand positions, just one for my first shot (Same as Chris Barnes hand position). One for right side pins, one for left side pins, and what to do if I feel I need more reaction. Also a nifty one to help the ball go a little longer. With more to come as he sees fit. One thing I've learned are making subtle adjustments, where drastic adjustments throw off my game.

There are adjustments that bowlers can do, like moving index and pinky in or out to increase or decrease turn, spreading a span by bending your pinky under, and slackening your wrist for corner pickup and coming straight up.

Just what are you learning, because these take some practice in themselves. Getting more fingers, wrist and side rotation on the ball doesn't come easy, and takes time.

I don't think there's any way to play the game competantly without learning how to move on the lane with both your feet and your target. And, IMO, this should be learned before you start fiddling with your release. I don't care how much today's game has changed from 10 or 20 or even 30 years ago.....you need to learn how to move on the lane.

You have to have a spare system and just changing your release or fingers on the ball is not going to develope any spare game. If a bowler has a competant spare system, they'd be averaging over 180. This is not with fiddling with hand release. Because doing so, introduces too many inconsistencies at that level.

Erin

1. Pinkie finger in, index finger open. (For first shot)
2. Index finger in, pinkie finger open. (For right side pins)
3. Both pinkie and index in. (For left side pins)
4. Pinkie finger bent under and in, index finger open. (Long)

I particularly like being thrown in the fire and challenged. It makes me that much more compelled to do the things I must to improve my game. Sure I'm still trying to solidify my approach, but I need extra things to keep me entertained. So far he has taught me a lot about the subtle movements in bowling, and he doesn't like to let any of his students get into a comfort zone.

I have the ability to move boards and find lines. Though I need to work more at playing inside lines.

If anything, I feel that the changes in ball technology that have occured over that time have made knowing how to move on the lane more essential because with today's equipment, the moves that need to be made are much bigger than they used to be. Lanes change quicker and more drastically, also the balls have a much better ability to overreact when the lane changes occur, therefore, the changes you need to make at times might also have to be drastic, like a major line change.

Mark

I don't want to come across as though I'm putting you down because I'm not trying to do that at all. But when I look at the information you've given, I see someone who's averaging in the 150's. That tells me that you're struggling to hit the pocket and you're struggling to make spares. I also assume you're bowling on a house shot, which will give you a fair amount of miss room if you're releasing the ball consistently and you're lined up.

So to me, if you're not consistent enough to strike more often and pick more spares with one release and one hand position, it's not a good idea to be playing around with more than one. In fact I'd say it will do more harm than good. That time and energy would be much better spent perfecting one hand position and one release.

Current average is at 153 as of last week. Night average two weeks ago was a 163 (151 avg on paper), and last week was a 179 (153 avg on paper). Most are struggling to hit average so far this season. I've managed so far to stay above, with a couple of exceptions, bad ribs and an illness.

Before I changed my hand position for spares I was maybe shooting around 50%. Since I've started using the different hand positions for spares I'm up around +/- 80%. I only had 5 or 6 opens last weekend, just couldn't keep my ball from crossing "Brooklyn". I do stick with the same hand position on my first ball for the most part. My main thing now is trying to play more lines than I currently do.

150 bowler on a house shot where the margin for error is greater than a sports shot or a pba shot.... Tells me you should stick to ONE hand position and ONE release until you Master it, and get your average into the high 180's low 190's. Basically, you need to learn to make spares consistently, and to keep the ball in the pocket on a consistent basis. Work on fundamentals. I totally concur with Lefty's assessment.


Your main thing should be not so much playing different lines, but learning to REPEAT shots. You CANNOT make an adjustment off a BAD shot. So if you throw it bad, and miss out, and you make an adjustment based on that, and now throw it good, the ball will now go in... or vice versa....

You shouldn't be going Brooklyn at all. There is where moving on the lane is a neccesity. No hand position change is going to cover any medium lane transition. Maybe mild, but not any more then that. I go Brooklyn maybe once or twice a month.



I agree 100% Exbronxite. The idea of a coach NOT wanting a student to get into a comfort zone, especially at the sub 160 average level, is what I would consider coaching mal practice. The main thing to bowling is finding that comfort zone and using it to your benefit. That ability to repeat motion. And recognizing when you get into that comfort zone. If you have no consistency then how can you tell when you throw a bad ball? I know you realize when you totally throw one out the window. But how to you figure out what you did wrong when you are constantly changing everything? You must have heard of bowlers talking about being "in the zone". That's what they are doing. Repeating shots with utmost comfort.

Erin

I dunno, call me stubborn I guess, but I don't have any problems with my coach. Like I said, I enjoy being challenged, and my game is improving more than it is hurting. Sure I'm having a hard time figuring out the lanes I bowl league at. Though I'm not the only one there that's having trouble finding a consistent line from lane to lane. If my average was dropping, and not rising I would most likely agree with you all. Though it's not dropping, and I'm getting better at repeating shots.

I was definitely trying to adjust on the approach to combat crossing "Brooklyn". Though I was just about at the resort of breaking out my plastic ball and launching it at the pins. Finding oil on these lanes was like finding any life in Salt Lake, non existent. By the third game I wasn't even getting an oil ring on my bowling ball. My Saturn (medium/light) was hooking like a mad man lol...

AmpleSound, there are many Coaches here that would not follow the same instruction that your coach has followed. The key to your improvement is how you relate to your coach, your practice and results. If you are satisfied, GOOD.

We don't consider you stubborn. You don't need to defend your training. We actually, enjoy reading about your improvement. Many here would have done it differently. But, that is OK.

We all hope you have great success.

Well thank you Dennis, and I enjoy the ideas I receive from all of you! Hopefully next week I will have some video to show, though it could be as late as the following Monday. My typical lessons with my coach are every other Thursday. He's finally going to get me on video so I can understand fully what my mistakes are, and my positives as well!

I went and bowled a few games last night, mainly focusing on my corner pins. I feel I made some ground, so hopefully it will carry over to league! I also played around with some different lines on the approach, only to have some dead pocket shots. Consistent fortunately, but not good strong carries at the pocket. I've got to work on my fast feet, though I was staying very solid and square with the pins at the foul line. Falling off my shot has been one of my main problems.

A spare system is exactly what all players need. This will improve the player's average. However, if a bowler does not have a ball for lighter conditions and he/she is bowling on them, a different hand position is what they need. If he/she is bowling on lighter conditions with an aggressive ball and standing left to throw right, he/she can easily fall into doing just that, THROWing the ball. As you know, a free, loose armswing is THE key to bowling, if they do not have this, then the bowler's chances are shot, spare system or not. I strongly beleve that any bowler, regardless of skill level, can learn at least two hand positions without destroying thier game. Simply, cupped, and not so cupped. While this will be different for each player, this has worked for every student I have ever coached, and it has never caused a negitive effect or a decline in average. Remember, most people are bowling on a house shot and they can get away with a ton more until they are comfortable with something new. If the bowler can, adding one different hand position increases the bowlers chances when it comes to adjustments. 2 balls + 2 hand positions = 4 different ball reactions, nuff said.

However, in Erin's favor, I do believe too many hand positions for a bowler with less experience IS a bad thing. This is best left for the coach to determine, but a coach should always be carefull to not give the bowler too much too soon.

I pretty much do just the two hand positions Silvercoach refers to. Although it is nice to have several options available to me when certain conditions present themselves. But I overthink everything anyways when I'm struggling so I really don't need anymore things to think about when I'm on the approach at this point in my game. It will only lead to more confususion in my case.
My focus lately has been on a looser arm swing, and proper movements on the lane, and to not think of anything but the shot once I'm set and on the approach.

This should be the first job for the coach. Determine if the ball being used is just totally out of the student's league. But I disagree, you cannot change hand position and work out a condition that does not suit the equipment. Today's game is mostly about matching up balls to the condition. Or I should say, with the wrong ball on the wrong condition its just impossible to improve at the sub 160 level. I'm in favor of being able to move on the lane first, but if the ball being used is just totally out of the realm of the given lane conditions, its just really hard to make anything good happen. Forcing this will cause bad habits to form. From the arsenal posted by Ample I don't believe that to be the case here. Unless of course he is playing on the Sahara desert.

Now its entirely posible that the student is not playing the Track in the house for the house condition. Again, a coach should be able to spot that and at least get the student lined up again.

Erin

Apparently we have different beliefs on this subject, however, it is completely false to say that you cannot change a hand position to use one ball on varying conditions. The pros do this all the time, and that is a proven fact. The best way to play the cheetah pattern for example, use an aggressive ball with less hand and play up the channel. This has been proven over and over again. For a bowler with less experience, giveing them a 6 ball arsenal is the biggest mistake a coach can make short of allowing a bad fit and telling them to throw the ball. Liz Johnson proved 2 weeks ago that a different hand position on a short pattern allows the bowler to have the advantage when they use the same ball as she would have on a heavy oil pattern. She used a special agent with the pin close to the middle of her hand, and had her breakpoint on the 5 board. She took a little hand out of the ball and she killed the competitors, and took home a title. In today's game, having an array of hand positions is the second most important thing a bowler can have physically, the first being a free armswing. I am not condoning teaching too many things to a beginning bowler, that would be a bad thing, however, 2 hand positions is more important than matching a balls to the condition. If the beginning bowler tries to do this, they can get in trouble because of a lack of experience. Instead of drastic moves with the target and feet where the bowler can run into things such as carry down, break down, etc. A bowler should use a combination of moves with the eyes and feet, as well as a different hand position now and then to find the best line possible. There are many different things that Elite bowlers use to find the best path to the pocket, hand positions, loft, ball speed, different balls, balls with different layouts, axis rotation, etc. The most easy to learn with consistancy is a second hand position.

Having been bowling, bowling with other people and watching people of all skill levels learn and grow for 30+ years, I'm still sticking with Erin in saying that it's a *very bad* idea to try and teach lower average bowlers different hand positions.

99% of these bowlers can't repeat with one hand position, let alone 2 or 3. And because they don't have the consistency and they're bowling on house shots that mask a tremendous amount of their inconsistency, they usually can't tell when something is them or the lane. So when they're executing bad shots, they're going to change hand positions instead of focusing on the fundamentals of good Execution.

The big issues for bowlers at this level are not going to be solved by changing hand positions either. On any given house shot the bowler is going to have 3 or more boards room. If they're in this range of averages, they're not hitting those 3 boards regularly at all. And that's if they got lined up right in the first place. You'll also have 3 boards to pick spares, and again, bowlers in this range are generally missing a lot of spares as well. So the big issues will be with executing consistent shots, which changing hand positions will make even more difficult.

I believe that you have to make the game simpler for them, not more complicated. Once you get to certain level of consistency, then it would be more appropriate to introduce more advanced things like changing hand positions, but you're only muddying the waters when people who have lower averages.

If you take your hand out of the ball, you're going to leave the back row. It's a very bad idea to do what you describe. You may want to look at what people have thrown on the Cheetah and won with. Doug Kent won on the Cheetah with a Purple Vibe. Tony Rayes was using a HawgZilla, but it was polished up and had a weak drilling. Liz Johnson doesn't get a lot on the ball, and she was throwing it 20 miles per hour to get it down the lane. She wasn't taking her hand out of the ball or she wouldn't have carried anywhere near as well as she did.

We're also not talking about Liz Johnson bowling on the Cheetah pattern. We're talking about 150-175 average bowlers who are bowling on wide open house conditions. She's one of the best in the world and has been doing this and doing it well for a very long time. Just because a pro can do something doesn't mean that it's a good idea for league bowlers to do.

Norm Duke, Walter Ray, Chris Barnes, and many other players have used and proven that a different hand position does allow a player to play different lines on different conditions with the same ball, that is all I was trying to show, Lefty. You are right, these are Elite players that are the best in the world. The point I was making to Erin was, useing the same ball for different conditions can work, and if the coach feels that the player is athletic enough to learn something as simple as "don't try to make the ball hook", a simple hand position, it can add to what the player can do. For example, if AmpleSound is consistant with his release and armswing, he could be missing 2 things that are effecting his average. 1. a spare system (Erin addressed this) and 2. Not knowing how to line up. For the second, a hand position may be what he needs, and AmpleSound's coach should be the one to make that choice to teach that at the proper time. Remember, they ARE on a house shot, and they can get away with more!

1. Pinkie finger in, index finger open. (For first shot)
2. Index finger in, pinkie finger open. (For right side pins)
3. Both pinkie and index in. (For left side pins)
4. Pinkie finger bent under and in, index finger open. (Long)

Ample Sound specifically mentioned the afore mentioned items. These are not different hand release positions to me. They are different ways to hold a ball. They don't change the timing, the swing, the speed, and would cause minimal disturbance.

If his coach was teaching cupping the ball or coming straight up or changing a 15 degree side rotation to a 30 to a 45 degree for different conditions, I would agree that that would be confusing to this level of bowler. But, he is just moving his fingers, which we all agree would have a beneficial affect without any major realese changes.

Dennis, those 4 you mentioned are different things that do change the release, which would in turn effect the ball's reaction. Those are simple things that could help a bowler adjust. As far as changing axis rotation, that is a complex thing to learn how to change, and it isn't for the beginning bowler.

As I said before, not every student can simply change hand position easily! However, we shouldn't be so quick to judge, AmpleSound could be athletic enough to learn one extra hand position that would greatly improve his chances when adjusting.

Dennis, you're underestimating just how important a consistent release is, and how adjusting those things can effect your swing, what you try and do to the ball and how you actually get out of the ball.

Think of how much some people struggle with just moving their feet and their mark. How many people do all kinds of bad things just from moving inside when they're used to playing outside, or moving outside when they're used to playing inside. Even with not changing a single physical property of their delivery, this throws many people way off.

I coached my college team. I was coaching 200+ bowlers. My main focus was to get them to do one thing right, and get it consistant. I agree that changing your finger positions will alter the rotation on the ball. But, it can be a lot for a beginner to think about. I think that is the point that Lefty and Erin are getting it. You don't want to confuse someone who doesn't have one position down completely. The person getting coached can be the most athletic person in the world but changing hand positions is not easy. This would be like teaching someone who shoots 110 on the gold course how to hit a face or a draw. Get them to hit the ball straight on a consistant basis, then teach them to shape the ball. Same with bowling. Get them to use 1 release and get used to it, then try another.

There is a way to change ball reaction without changing hand position. You can also put emphasis on certain fingers at the release point. Putting emphasis on the pinky during follow through will encourage maximum roll. Emphasis on the ring finger will give you more roll than skid. Emphasis on the middle finger will give you more more backend and less roll. Emphasis on the index finger will give you maximum backend and minimum roll.

This was talked about in Bowling This Month, this month. For those who don't subscribe, I would advise you do so as soon as possible. Very good articles. Many of the same issues we discuss is covered on a regular basis.

By lifting with certain fingers you alter hand position without trying to alter hand positions. You just focus on the finger, not the actual hand position.

Just my two cents.

I also think learning new hand positions is an advanced technique. The first adjustment should be with the feet. It is very easy to do with a typical house shot. It isn't the same on the PBA patterns. The PBA patterns are very different when it comes to adjusting, but we aren't talking PBA here. Walter Ray usually just adds ball speed when he is bowling on PBA patterns. Not so easy for your typical house bowler. Walter Ray has said many times that his first adjustment is to add ball speed. Other bowlers change axis tilt. It isn't fair to compare 160 average bowlers to PBA bowlers. Apples and oranges.

I agree, Smooth. Finger adjustments help a bowler, even one at this stage to gain confidence because they can manage a ball and become more confident in their roll. Moving the index on an outside spare shot cuts the backend and yields better chance for pickup. And, I don't view this as a major change. It is something that has been taught 30 years ago when I was being trained in late juniors. I do agreee that changing the axis on a consistent basis is something beyond the capability of a bowler at this stage. And, many of us too. But, that is not what he is learning.

He is learning how a finger movement can affect the roll of the ball without changing his wrist and staying consistent in his release.

Now, leading with a ring or middle finger takes some time to adjust to and learn. But, all he has been taught by his coach is a minor way to cut or increase the turn on his ball by moving his fingers. By his own admission, he has not altered his wrist or release, and that's OK. His explanation says he understands it and his satisfaction says he has had success with it. So, I don't see anything wong with it.

Changing axis is a whole different ball game.

Moving your fingers around as described actually changes axis rotation.

Well I must say I brought on quite the discussion lol. It's very interesting to see the different ideas you all have. I'm enjoying every bit of it! I will see my coach again this week, and my main concern is slowing down my spare shots. I was shooting ok this weekend, but not as good as I'd hoped. One thing is certain, my game is improving and that makes me know I'm getting what I've paid for.

I finished last season with a 149 average. Went to the Colorado State Tournament with a 142 average, able to keep a 168 average over the weekend. This summer I just started seeing my coach, and didn't have a great average in the small summer league I joined. Though I understand because I was (and am) still trying to solidify my approach. Ended the summer with a 154 average.

My coach commends me for how fast I pick things up. He has told me over and over that he normally wouldn't teach students of my caliber the things he's teaching me. All for the fact that not many pick the things up like I have. I do know that my spare game needs work. The main thing I need to build there is confidence. Confidence in knowing that I will hit my mark, and my approach and release will be spot on.

I started this season with a 149 average. It started out a little rocky, and I fell as far back as a 145. Now I'm up to a 160, or at least that's what it should be come this Saturday. Luckily I think I know where I'm messing myself up on spares. So I'll be practicing this week to see if that's the right correction. Also I should be getting some video this Thursday since my coach should be bringing his equipment :-). As far as the correction I'm referring to, I think I'm pulling myself to the left instead of staying into my shot at the release. My coach has caught me doing it before, and it seems as though I've reverted back to the bad habit...

[/quote]The main thing I need to build there is confidence. Confidence in knowing that I will hit my mark, and my approach and release will be spot on. [/quote]

There's nothing like confidence. But it can be hard to develope and easily knocked down. Just keep in mind that you "want" to hit a spot. But on a house shot generally you have at least the board to the right and board to the left.

If it makes you feel any better Kegal has Throwbot, which automatically throws a ball exactly the same way every single time and its deadly accurate. It has never thrown a 300 game.

So do your best to hit your mark, realize that if you don't you might get away with it. Recognize when you really miss, and if you stay out of trouble, you caught a break. Have your spare system down pat, so that there's no doubt and not extra thinking when you line up for spares. Everyone's spare system is different. When you practice (I'm using the "c" instead of the "s" Dennis) its easy to to want to throw strikes. But try to really focus on spare shooting. It doesn't matter if the head pin is there. If you need work on your 10 pin or 7 pin or bucket, shoot for it.

Erin

Yeah I put in a game and a half last week just shooting for the 7 and 10 pins. Trying to make it to where I only hit those pins and no others. Challenging for sure, but it paid off for the most part. I was hitting my corner pins nicely this past Saturday night, just not the others lol... I will bowl a few games tonight and try to see if what I think I'm doing wrong is the culprit!

Also what do you guys think of me having fingertip strike balls but a conventional drilled spare ball? Should I spend the money and get it redrilled fingertip?

I wouldn't recommend that you have different grips in your bowling balls. If your strike ball is fingertip, your spare ball should be also. This allows for a comfortable, consistent feeling when you hold the ball.