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#44459 - 10/24/07 04:59 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Brandon510]
AmpleSound Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 618
A/S/L: 25/M/CO
My coach is a silver level coach, and I think he's teaching me more because of how fast I've picked things up. Trust me none of what he's taught me has hurt my game. It has drastically improved it! He hasn't taught me too many hand positions, just one for my first shot (Same as Chris Barnes hand position). One for right side pins, one for left side pins, and what to do if I feel I need more reaction. Also a nifty one to help the ball go a little longer. With more to come as he sees fit. One thing I've learned are making subtle adjustments, where drastic adjustments throw off my game.
_________________________
In the bag:
Legends - The Black Pearl Reactive - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Epic Battle - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Saturn - 15# (Med/Dry)
Lane Master - Sure Strike - 15# (Dry/Spares)
Viz-A-Ball Globe - 14# (Spares/Dry)

My best:
HGS - 266
HSS - 676

Moriah!

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Registered: 27/08/04
Posts: 10136
Loc: Mountain View, CA
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#44462 - 10/24/07 05:48 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: AmpleSound]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3171
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
There are adjustments that bowlers can do, like moving index and pinky in or out to increase or decrease turn, spreading a span by bending your pinky under, and slackening your wrist for corner pickup and coming straight up.

Just what are you learning, because these take some practice in themselves. Getting more fingers, wrist and side rotation on the ball doesn't come easy, and takes time.

_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#44467 - 10/25/07 01:56 AM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Dennis Michael]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4043
A/S/L: 42/F/California
I don't think there's any way to play the game competantly without learning how to move on the lane with both your feet and your target. And, IMO, this should be learned before you start fiddling with your release. I don't care how much today's game has changed from 10 or 20 or even 30 years ago.....you need to learn how to move on the lane.

You have to have a spare system and just changing your release or fingers on the ball is not going to develope any spare game. If a bowler has a competant spare system, they'd be averaging over 180. This is not with fiddling with hand release. Because doing so, introduces too many inconsistencies at that level.

Erin

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#44478 - 10/25/07 12:00 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
AmpleSound Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 618
A/S/L: 25/M/CO
1. Pinkie finger in, index finger open. (For first shot)
2. Index finger in, pinkie finger open. (For right side pins)
3. Both pinkie and index in. (For left side pins)
4. Pinkie finger bent under and in, index finger open. (Long)

I particularly like being thrown in the fire and challenged. It makes me that much more compelled to do the things I must to improve my game. Sure I'm still trying to solidify my approach, but I need extra things to keep me entertained. So far he has taught me a lot about the subtle movements in bowling, and he doesn't like to let any of his students get into a comfort zone.

I have the ability to move boards and find lines. Though I need to work more at playing inside lines.
_________________________
In the bag:
Legends - The Black Pearl Reactive - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Epic Battle - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Saturn - 15# (Med/Dry)
Lane Master - Sure Strike - 15# (Dry/Spares)
Viz-A-Ball Globe - 14# (Spares/Dry)

My best:
HGS - 266
HSS - 676

Moriah!

Top
#44485 - 10/25/07 03:03 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Mkirchie Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 190
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
Quote:
I don't care how much today's game has changed from 10 or 20 or even 30 years ago.....you need to learn how to move on the lane.


If anything, I feel that the changes in ball technology that have occured over that time have made knowing how to move on the lane more essential because with today's equipment, the moves that need to be made are much bigger than they used to be. Lanes change quicker and more drastically, also the balls have a much better ability to overreact when the lane changes occur, therefore, the changes you need to make at times might also have to be drastic, like a major line change.

Mark
_________________________
16# Time Zone (Very heavy oil, spares)
16# Petraglia Pro-Am Ball (Heavy oil, spares)
16# Critical Mass (Heavy-medium oil, spares)
16# Control Zone (Medium oil, spares)
(Hey, I like old stuff!)
HG-300(5)
HS-776
Current Avg-216

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#44487 - 10/25/07 03:11 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: AmpleSound]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1795
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: AmpleSound
1. Pinkie finger in, index finger open. (For first shot)
2. Index finger in, pinkie finger open. (For right side pins)
3. Both pinkie and index in. (For left side pins)
4. Pinkie finger bent under and in, index finger open. (Long)

I particularly like being thrown in the fire and challenged. It makes me that much more compelled to do the things I must to improve my game. Sure I'm still trying to solidify my approach, but I need extra things to keep me entertained. So far he has taught me a lot about the subtle movements in bowling, and he doesn't like to let any of his students get into a comfort zone.

I have the ability to move boards and find lines. Though I need to work more at playing inside lines.


I don't want to come across as though I'm putting you down because I'm not trying to do that at all. But when I look at the information you've given, I see someone who's averaging in the 150's. That tells me that you're struggling to hit the pocket and you're struggling to make spares. I also assume you're bowling on a house shot, which will give you a fair amount of miss room if you're releasing the ball consistently and you're lined up.

So to me, if you're not consistent enough to strike more often and pick more spares with one release and one hand position, it's not a good idea to be playing around with more than one. In fact I'd say it will do more harm than good. That time and energy would be much better spent perfecting one hand position and one release.

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#44488 - 10/25/07 04:20 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Lefty]
AmpleSound Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 618
A/S/L: 25/M/CO
Current average is at 153 as of last week. Night average two weeks ago was a 163 (151 avg on paper), and last week was a 179 (153 avg on paper). Most are struggling to hit average so far this season. I've managed so far to stay above, with a couple of exceptions, bad ribs and an illness.

Before I changed my hand position for spares I was maybe shooting around 50%. Since I've started using the different hand positions for spares I'm up around +/- 80%. I only had 5 or 6 opens last weekend, just couldn't keep my ball from crossing "Brooklyn". I do stick with the same hand position on my first ball for the most part. My main thing now is trying to play more lines than I currently do.


Edited by AmpleSound (10/25/07 04:24 PM)
_________________________
In the bag:
Legends - The Black Pearl Reactive - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Epic Battle - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Saturn - 15# (Med/Dry)
Lane Master - Sure Strike - 15# (Dry/Spares)
Viz-A-Ball Globe - 14# (Spares/Dry)

My best:
HGS - 266
HSS - 676

Moriah!

Top
#44498 - 10/25/07 06:58 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: AmpleSound]
ExBronxiteBowler Offline
PBA Senior Bowler

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 543
A/S/L: M 56 Staten Island, NY
150 bowler on a house shot where the margin for error is greater than a sports shot or a pba shot.... Tells me you should stick to ONE hand position and ONE release until you Master it, and get your average into the high 180's low 190's. Basically, you need to learn to make spares consistently, and to keep the ball in the pocket on a consistent basis. Work on fundamentals. I totally concur with Lefty's assessment.


Your main thing should be not so much playing different lines, but learning to REPEAT shots. You CANNOT make an adjustment off a BAD shot. So if you throw it bad, and miss out, and you make an adjustment based on that, and now throw it good, the ball will now go in... or vice versa....
_________________________
Scores are all relative to the scoring pace of the lane condition. This means if everyone and thier brother is striking, you better strike, if no one is stringing strikes, keep the ball in play and make your spares.

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#44505 - 10/25/07 09:10 PM Re: Lane conditions [Re: ExBronxiteBowler]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4043
A/S/L: 42/F/California
Quote:
I only had 5 or 6 opens last weekend, just couldn't keep my ball from crossing "Brooklyn".


You shouldn't be going Brooklyn at all. There is where moving on the lane is a neccesity. No hand position change is going to cover any medium lane transition. Maybe mild, but not any more then that. I go Brooklyn maybe once or twice a month.

Quote:
Your main thing should be not so much playing different lines, but learning to REPEAT shots. You CANNOT make an adjustment off a BAD shot. So if you throw it bad, and miss out, and you make an adjustment based on that, and now throw it good, the ball will now go in... or vice versa....


I agree 100% Exbronxite. The idea of a coach NOT wanting a student to get into a comfort zone, especially at the sub 160 average level, is what I would consider coaching mal practice. The main thing to bowling is finding that comfort zone and using it to your benefit. That ability to repeat motion. And recognizing when you get into that comfort zone. If you have no consistency then how can you tell when you throw a bad ball? I know you realize when you totally throw one out the window. But how to you figure out what you did wrong when you are constantly changing everything? You must have heard of bowlers talking about being "in the zone". That's what they are doing. Repeating shots with utmost comfort.

Erin

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#44525 - 10/26/07 11:13 AM Re: Lane conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
AmpleSound Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 618
A/S/L: 25/M/CO
I dunno, call me stubborn I guess, but I don't have any problems with my coach. Like I said, I enjoy being challenged, and my game is improving more than it is hurting. Sure I'm having a hard time figuring out the lanes I bowl league at. Though I'm not the only one there that's having trouble finding a consistent line from lane to lane. If my average was dropping, and not rising I would most likely agree with you all. Though it's not dropping, and I'm getting better at repeating shots.

I was definitely trying to adjust on the approach to combat crossing "Brooklyn". Though I was just about at the resort of breaking out my plastic ball and launching it at the pins. Finding oil on these lanes was like finding any life in Salt Lake, non existent. By the third game I wasn't even getting an oil ring on my bowling ball. My Saturn (medium/light) was hooking like a mad man lol...

_________________________
In the bag:
Legends - The Black Pearl Reactive - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Epic Battle - 15# (Heavy/Med)
Roto-Grip Saturn - 15# (Med/Dry)
Lane Master - Sure Strike - 15# (Dry/Spares)
Viz-A-Ball Globe - 14# (Spares/Dry)

My best:
HGS - 266
HSS - 676

Moriah!

Top
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