Hi All,

I'm not sure if this topic had been discussed before...

What is the difference between "Pure Stroker" and "Power Stroker"?

I would like to change my style from pure to power stroker, probably I'll find a coach to help me. But firstly, I need to understand what is the difference...

I watched Peter Weber as one of the finest power stroker... I observed that he bent his elbow a bit during forward swing... Is this a must for power stroker?

Thanks!

Another thing, I just read John Jowdy's article that mention about power stroker. He said Pete Weber and Rudi Kasimakis are putting the fingers in the ball to increase the ball revolution. "Lets the ball works on your hand" I heard it from a coach one day which I'm thinking it should a similar thing...

Need your advice guys...

The difference is the number of revs you get which results in the amount of turn your ball gets. The motion is the same, just more fingers/hand into the ball.

More hand should result in more pinfall through splashing/slashing pins. The more pins moving on the deck knocks more down.

Difficulty is control on med/dry lanes with a lot of overturn. If you can change your release to accommodate this, it works.

But, watch out. More fingers/hand also could result in the tendancy to hit up on the ball which defeats the purpose.

Dennis,

This summer I spent a lot of time on the lanes changing my release. I went from a shot with spin to a shot with more roll. Unfortunately, I am having a very difficult time right now in my 5 man league as the lanes dry up so can you go into a little more detail about changing the release to accommodate this?

And what's the difference between more fingers and hitting up on the ball? I had always assumed that they meant the same.

Thanks

Eddys,
Dennis pretty much covered it. While a pure stroker relies primarily on accuracy and smoothness to carry, a power stroker has accuracy, smoothness and puts a good amount of revs on the ball at the same time like Pete Weber as you mentioned. A power stroker is slightly different from a tweener who isn't quite as accurate, but has good versatility over various lane conditions. Good luck.

Rookie roller,
As for the difference between hitting up on the ball and more hand/fingers, I might be wrong here, but hitting up on the ball is more of lifting or triggering your fingers at release, while more hand is more of the wrist movement. With Pete Weber as an example, the announcers are constantly talking about how open his fingers are when he releases the ball, he has plenty of side rotation on the ball, but with out triggering the fingers. When you trigger the fingers will curl in towards the palm. As for the issue with lanes drying up, if moving in to get into more oil doesn't help, try coming more up the back of the ball as opposed to around the side of it. It allows for more end over end roll and a less drastic change of direction. Others will chime in this I'm sure.

I think this is my problem. I've been working on staying behind the ball but I'm pretty I sure hit up on it too much. Combine that with dry lanes and my ball overreacts. I'm guessing the fix is to release so that my fingers project the ball down the lane instead of pulling them up and in towards my body. Thanks for the tip.

I have the same issue on dry, its just hard to repeat shot after shot when you aren't used to it. I've been working on it as well as not gripping the ball which adds to it.

When I first got serious about bowling many years ago, coaches taught me to lift with the fingers ( hit up on it ) to get more revs. I bowled this way for years. I recently picked the game up again after sitting out for a few years and since I started back, I changed my release and no longer lift with the fingers. My release is alot cleaner and more effortless. I ended my last league season 5 years ago with a 184 average. Now, after almost no bowling for 5 years, I am averageing over 210 with the new release. If you want to improve your average, you need to improve on 3 things: Accuracy, consistant ball speed and a consistant release. It doesn't matter what type of player you are, you just need to improve on your particular game. Look at the variety of styles on the pro tour. No one tells those guys they could do better with a different style. Just hone the skills you have.

You got it Matt.
When you hit up you might have a tendancy to use your wrist and arm which may result in muscling the ball. This is what you want to avoid.

Many talk here about leading with your ring finger to optimize revs as a Stroker. Silvercoach calls it a frisbee release. PDW has an open hand release. In any event, the hand does not come back to your body, but is out.

I think when I "hit up" the ball I really can see the higher revs, but my ball doesn't seem to want to grip and come back to the pocket. It maybe only moves 1-2 boards.

Thanks everybody for the advice.

Hi Dennis and Matt,
would you elaborate how to hit up the ball or do more fingers/hand into the ball, I mean technically?

Should I bent my elbow a little bit, as I observed that Pete Weber sometimes (not always) bent his elbow. I think most of power stroker bent their elbow... maybe to keep the finger under the ball...

I would like to change my release as yours Matt, no longer lift with the fingers, but as now this writing, the progress is not good at all, I drop the ball most of the time. I don't have a clue how to fix it? How is your swing? Do you extend your arm all the time or bent your elbow? How to keep you hand behind the ball (finger under the ball)?

Thanks Guys!

What i've learned not to do is pull my hand, wrist and fingers through the ball, resulting in the hand coming back. Using muscle, hitting up. But, rather develop a ball turn from the ring finger. It starts from under the ball and comes out on the side, creating turn. It is the last one to leave the ball and if done right, creates increased revs.
My hand opens upon release and has a movement toward the thumb side with the ring finger turning the ball.

Silvercoach calls this the frisbee release. It's how you throw a frisbee.

Crankers will turn their upper body in the backswing to the ball side for leverage and get their hand cupped under the ball for a stronger turn at the release.

Hi Dennis,

I think I got your point. But, do you bent your elbow during the forward swing to keep the fingers under the ball? If not, how do you snap/lock the wrist/fingers?

My hand/wrist can handle the ball (14p) on static condition (no moving), but when combining with the swing, seem the ball become heavier that is normal because of the centrifugal/centripetal force.

Any tips?


Many Thanks!

Actually, my arm is pretty straight at the elbow. I restarted 3 years ago after a long layoff, and found that my wrist was not as strong. I wore a wrist support for a couple of years to retrain it.

Check out Ron Clifton's tip on the bowler's release:
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm

Excellent post, CoachJim.
Picture is worth 1000 words.

If you follow Ron Clifton's tip, would not the ball come of the left part of your hand when you "turn the doorknob"?

Hi Dennis,
I thought a wrist support cannot be used on this case... I'm wrong again...

Last night my friend told me that my hand was not behind the ball during the forward swing, but made an angle with my palm pointed to my body. Thus, I tried to keep my hand behind the ball during the whole swing (keep pointing my thumb parallel with the direction of forward swing), even during the release (I don't care about the angle at this time). The result was better, the ball was not dropped frequently even though the rotation angle was small...

Then, thanks to CoachJim that shared the tip from Ron... Look like I'm on the correct path...

CoachJim, I will read and learn this article carefully and will try it out on the lane... For sure, I will need a lot of time and effort to Master it.

Again, thanks a lot everybody... Your advices are excellent and very helpful for me...

I'm not sure what you mean by the left part of your hand, do you mean a back up ball? Try it for your self and post back your results. I can tell you it has taken me a year and I am getting the hang of it pretty good these days, and it seems to work well for Chris Barnes too.

If you look at the Ron Clifton article, your forearm, wrist and back of the hand should be fairly straight through the swing, as in picture B. It should not be slackened (relaxed) as in Picture A. The wrist support helps that. It can even be positioned with a modest cup to your hand, as the explanation states.

It would seem to me that the ball would go left off your hand and end up left of your target. But, maybe I'm just looking at it wrong. If it works for Chris Barnes it might just work for me. I mean he does have 8 titles.

CoachJim, I see a lot of people doing this release here in europe - especially the younger players who have coaches (not in my country, though :))

So it took you 1 year to get this release? The article states that many will not be able to do this release and I was wondering if I should even try to learn it or not. I would definitely like to. Do you think it can be done if you just keep practicing until you get it right?

I was thinking about opening a new topic specifically about this release, because I have a few questions. But I need to prepare some videos first.

The key to hitting your target is that the thumb comes out before the hand moves around the ball. Also, not that the hand moves around the ball, the ball does not move around the hand. This way, the ball continues on path, and the movement of the hand is what contributes to the large number of revs.

Last night, I tried to practice with a new technique from Ron's tip.

A significant improvement was I could grip the ball firmly during the whole swing with flat/cupped/cocked wrist and dropped only a few time, however I could not make the release consistent (of course, it was the first time, what do you expect??? ).

The release was too late or too early, or sometimes I still pulled the ball. But when the release was correct, I didn't fell the pull of the ball weight on the fingers (or just felt a bit), the ball looked like just escape from my hand, landing smoothly on the lane (no sound), and it rotated a lot (even with small angle), and it hit the pin very hard. It happened only probably 1/20...

I also got problem to hit the target... a year makes sense now...